[Rockstargirl]

These are so funny. How about sending empty recycled packages and market “free from everything” stay safe beauties ????

[Rockstargirl]

That’s a lot of Glycerin. And a gentle surfactant. Glad you found a product that works for your skin type. 

[Rockstargirl]

MarkBroussard said:

@Rockstargirl

If you’re being hired as an indedpendent product developer, your job is to deliver the product the customer is requesting.  If you have ideas that would make the product better, then offer those up to the client.  However, at the end of the day, it’s the customer’s final decision as to what is/is not included in the product. 

I formulate with No lists day-in, day-out and have never found that to be an impediment to formulating good products since most items on the No list are not ingredients I would use anyhow.  If you can tell up front that the client is looking to develop a product that is not something you want to be associated with, just turn down the business.

I always cover myself contractually and in documentation that if I recommend against adding or not adding ingredients that I suspect/know will cause the product to fail either stability of PCT, that if the client insists against my recommendation, and the product does fail, that it is the client’s responsibility.  If you send samples out to a third-party lab for PCT, always have the client pay the third-party lab directly, particularly if the client is insisting on an approach to preservation that you don’t believe is appropriate.  Generally, once they have to pay for a second PCT test they’ll start listening to you.   

You are really great. Thank you for that answer. 

[Rockstargirl]

Graillotion said:

As an example, I make pretty unique deo.  It is a multi-faceted attack on bacteria that produce odor.  I will often discuss the common aspects it shares with other professional formulas, the triethyl citrate, the EHG, and so on. 

I never discuss in open forum…what I consider to be the ‘secret weapon’ in the formula.  Granted every self-respecting chemist is familiar with it….but often don’t put two and two together…and say…WOW…that would make the perfect deo ingredient.  (Obviously all secrets are exposed on the INCI… but I have seen brands really try and hide things when they explain their ingredients…. things like calling their most potent antimicrobial….a structuring agent…you know sleight of hand…and …. smoke mirrors and misdirection…etc.)

This product was co-developed with two of the genius chemists on this site.  And at no time did we ever discuss the most important aspects in open forum.  Secret…I don’t think so.  Maybe just business acumen?

Marketing is so good at turning good formulating into one of a kind secrets! ????

[Rockstargirl]

I think we all have a style. Idk if they are secrets. 

[Rockstargirl]

Pharma said:

Rockstargirl said:

…Waiting for replicator nano bots…

You don’t have to wait, just go ‘free from preservatives’ and you’ll have a self-replicating cosmetic formulation which highly selectively activates certain cell types in your skin :smiley: !
bahahah 

[Rockstargirl]

Thanks! I knew they were tying it to encapsulation. But what a stretch. Waiting for replicator nano bots to hit the market….

[Rockstargirl]

Graillotion said:

Rockstargirl said:

How do companies claim thermal water or water from the Swiss alps and then “made in the USA”? No way they fly millions of gallons of water. Isn’t it all deionized?

If you put a drop in every batch….hmmmn…I’m thinking… Contains Swiss Alps water. 

Did they say…ONLY Swiss Mt water?   You know the routine.

If I go to the super market….and NO PLACE COULD BE FURTHER FROM WHERE I LIVE….than Switerland…. I can easily purchase Swiss Alp drinking water.

Maybe there is a new term in the offing…. ‘Claim water’?

Aloha!

Lol. I mean it’s so ridiculous that people would believe this. The cost! 

[Rockstargirl]

also, I’ve almost been in physical fights over plant stem cells ????

[Rockstargirl]

Fragrance gets me every time. You need to play with different solubilizers and ratios. And then go back and rethink the viscosity. Also I solubilize everything separately first. Good luck!

[Rockstargirl]

Very very good advice. Thank you

MarkBroussard said:

@Rockstargirl

It’s always the client’s decision.  Just advise her of the issue with using EO’s and the potential for irritation and let her choose.  It is not unusual for a client to make a bad choice despite your best advice, but really not worth your time and energy to try to convice them otherwise beyond advising them of the issues and options. 

But, do make sure that you have a means of securing additional payment for you to redo the formula with fragrance oils once they realize they should have taken your advice to begin with.  Generally, if a client has to pay more money for you to correct their poor decision against your advice, from that point forward, they heed your counsel.

[Rockstargirl]

Thanks! Good points. EO always smells the same to me and I’m not a fan either. I know I’m projecting my bias but she can do better 

grapefruit22 said:

- if it is a leave-on product, then when using essential oils you will likely exceed the allowable amount of allergens and will have to list them in the EU
- the scent of the same essential oil from the same manufacturer may differ between batches, sometimes these differences are really very noticeable.

Personally, I don’t like products whose scent is created with essential oils, it’s irritating and too intense for me.

[Rockstargirl]

would something like foaming silk help?

[Rockstargirl]

I think using it alone would be very heavy though think using it alone would make very heavy cream. And remember the charge is positive so even when it’s rinsed it’s going to make hair very flat.

[Rockstargirl]

Perry said:

“The derms also had a stake in the stem cell company soooo. But did spend a good amount of time telling me plant and human cells are the same. Red flag right away, but authority bias hit!“

@Rockstargirl - I always wonder about the quality of any derm who needs to supplement their income by selling dubious anti-aging skin care lines.

100% this. But they are also dancing on tiktok for soap. Perhaps dermatology doesn’t pay what it use too

[Rockstargirl]

MarkBroussard said:

Rockstargirl said:

Perry said:

Here are my thoughts on the subject of stem cells in cosmetics.
Basically, I think they are promising but the technology at the moment is simply a claims ingredient with little to no benefit. 

I’m also highly skeptical that people will see any real effects from topically applied growth factors. These may show promise in cell cultures in the lab but this has not translated into actual topically applied products.

Some derms are better trained than others and while their advice about skin diseases and conditions is reliable, I’d have much less faith in their advice about daily skin care maintenance. They are easily misinformed & some are motivated to get you to buy into a marketing story so you buy products from them.

Thanks Perry. The derms also had a stake in the stem cell company soooo. But did spend a good amount of time telling me plant and human cells are the same. Red flag right away, but authority bias hit

@Rockstargirl

FYI:  I have leaves instead of ears if that helps you any

Leaves. ???? dead 

[Rockstargirl]

Perry said:

Here are my thoughts on the subject of stem cells in cosmetics.
Basically, I think they are promising but the technology at the moment is simply a claims ingredient with little to no benefit. 

I’m also highly skeptical that people will see any real effects from topically applied growth factors. These may show promise in cell cultures in the lab but this has not translated into actual topically applied products.

Some derms are better trained than others and while their advice about skin diseases and conditions is reliable, I’d have much less faith in their advice about daily skin care maintenance. They are easily misinformed & some are motivated to get you to buy into a marketing story so you buy products from them.

Thanks Perry. The derms also had a stake in the stem cell company soooo. But did spend a good amount of time telling me plant and human cells are the same. Red flag right away, but authority bias hit!

[Rockstargirl]

MarkBroussard said:

Stems cells are just highly purified plant extracts that are manufactured by plant stem cells so they will not have much effect.

Growth Factors are a different case and this is probably what the derms are focusing on.

Thanks Mark. This makes sense. I’ll study up more on growth factors. I thought they were just humectants. 

[Rockstargirl]

Abdullah said:

Rockstargirl said:

The ingredients and % determine if is a drug or a cosmetic. Soap is a cosmetic. So if they make a “cures acne” claim - that is incorrect for a cosmetic. “Helps the appearance of acne” may be more suitable. The claim itself does not make it a drug. The man power of health authorities is not great and lots of this falls under the radar. However the fines levied when caught are no joke. It’s not worth the risk. Research what claims are allowed and the wording before marketing. I believe BP and Sal acid may make acne claims however “ cure” is not a word I would use. 

Thanks 

One particular question. 
Are OTC products controled by regulations to see if it realy do what it claims?

Well.. some is already established (spf filters etc) But you should do testing to back up your claims. The responsibility is of those making the claim.  

[Rockstargirl]

The ingredients and % determine if is a drug or a cosmetic. Soap is a cosmetic. So if they make a “cures acne” claim - that is incorrect for a cosmetic. “Helps the appearance of acne” may be more suitable. The claim itself does not make it a drug. The man power of health authorities is not great and lots of this falls under the radar. However the fines levied when caught are no joke. It’s not worth the risk. Research what claims are allowed and the wording before marketing. I believe BP and Sal acid may make acne claims however “ cure” is not a word I would use. 

[Rockstargirl]

GeorgeBenson said:

Maybe try using less Niacinamide?

Ageee. 4% is good

[Rockstargirl]

BetterBeauty said:

Thank you for your reply. It’s a cream. Ideally, we are looking for someone to manufacture the formula and fill it into our containers. 

I think the concern for those who can do smaller MOQ (and charge more for it) is that you will outgrow them. Plus smaller quantities of raw materials cost more. (This the charge to you) you might have to bight the bullet yourself initially, but if you really can move your product..it will get cheaper with high MOQ 

[Rockstargirl]

majibo said:thanks 

Rockstargirl said:

Is ethyl ascorbic acid not stable on its own? I’m curious why you need the ferulic acid? For knowledge too please!

It is stable on its own, no need to add it to this formula for protecting the formula, but if you use L-ascorbic, then you may want to use it for stabilisation. I guess you may get antioxidant benefits if you adjust to a specific pH.

[Rockstargirl]

What is the product? A cream? A balm? You just want it in buckets or filled?

[Rockstargirl]

Oh boy! I just did this today. 6000 daltons be 1.5 million daltons. Sorry I can’t upload video .
this 1% and HMW is THICK