ketchito
Forum Replies Created
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To give you a better advice, you need to list your formula ingredients without percentages. Also, what’s the level of Phenoxyethanol you’re using and when and how you’re adding it.
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Guar HPTC is not soluble by its own in water, but only dispersible. It is expected to precipitate over time due to its molecular weight. You need to either suspend it, or solubilize it (like what the excess of SLES does in a shampoo formula).
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Let’s start then with a very basic formula. Try 2% of CETAC, 2% of dimethicone, and 1% of cyclomethicone. If it separates over time, add 0.1-0.2% of ceteareth-20. If this gets a bit thicker, add 2-3% of either glycerin or propylene glycol.
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What’s the pH of your product? If it’s acid, check with your supplier if the fragrance is stable at that pH.
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Remove glycerin and reduce both hydrolyzed protein and panthenol to 0.1-0.01%.
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Lubrizol
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Dispersion Techniques for Carbopol Polymers Technical Data Sheet
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Specialty Chemicals - The Lubrizol Corporation
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With that amount of fragrance and polysorbate 20, I see your foam will not be as good as it could. I haven’t seen cleansing formulas with more than 1% of fragrance, the usual levelbis around 0.5%. Polysorbate will for sure impact (negatively) foam and viscosity. If you reduce your fragrance, you won’t need as much polysorbate. Also, you could increase your betaine and even add something like Cocamidde DEA.
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What’s the type of smell you perceive? If it’s “fishy”, that’s normal due to the nitrogen-based ingredients you’re using.
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I agree with @Perry44 about the oxidation. Now, what could happen is that your vaseline wasn’t as refined as some others, and those traces could contain materials prone to oxidation.
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I love the artistry and creativity. If you want to make it more challenging, add some ink to the combo, and of course, some red wine (either a cheap one, or perhaps a bottle that a bad boyfriend gave you long time ago).
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You could try with liquid emulsifiers, like Polysorbate 20, laureth-9 and PEG-40 HCO (the last one can be a bit thicker than the other ones). Now, to Spray the product, you don’t need it to be completely liquid; there are sprayable products in the market with certain thickness (I’ve seen some at up to 12,000 cps).
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Gels don’t have oil phases (unless you are formulating a cream gel, which is a different type of product). If you want a crear gel, remove all your oily materiales, since you’re forming an emulsion (that’s why the white color). By the way, I don’t see any styling polymers in your formula.
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W/O emulsions are inherently resistant to water, at least more than O/W. I’m not an expert on W/O emulsions, but I know that manufacturing process (especially the low addition) is key, as well as to choose the right emulsifiers and adding salt.
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I understand then you’re using all your water to disperse your guar HPTC. Are you using high mixing both for the addition (mix for around 20 min after adding it) and for when you add something to lower the pH (also mix for around 20 min at high speed; here the viscosity will increase a lot)?
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I hope I didn’t get it wrong, but I assume you’re adding your fragrance at around 45°C and with low shear. It that’s making you lose some viscosity, you could add some polymeric emulsifier like Sepigel 305 or Rheoluxe 812.
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Also, having some knowledge on chemistry, physiology and colloids can help you narrow it down to only the ingredients that have a real potential to have an effect (which are very few). Those are the ones to test. Real knowledge and having good sources of information (scientific papers, books, etc) is the best anti BS tool.
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If you look back and see where the breakthrough technologies that @Perry44 mentioned came from, it was from big companies with the best scientists and huge research budget. If you don’t have that budget and technical capability, it’s very unlikely you’ll be able to develop those type of technologies. And if you want to find a good mentor, many of the best were mentioned in some previous message. You can also check their scientific publications, work experience and products launched.
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Could you use the 1st method, just using all the water formula to make the guar solution, and adding EDTA to that guar solution (before the citric acid)? Also, I assume you later use some base to increase pH up to 5, right? I’m asking since in your first post you mentioned a pH of 3.8 (or perhaps that was the pH of the guar solution and 5 was the final pH of the whole mixture).
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Here’s the full list of possible endocrine disruptors evaluated by EPA. As you can see, no convincing evidence of endocrine activity for almost all of the chemicals evaluated.
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@mikethair Unfortunately I don’t have much time to go through all of those papers (althoug I’d love to), but just the first one gives you an idea of the terrible quality and huge bias of these articles. To assess the prevalence of endocrine disruptors, they used EPA CompTox Chemistry Dashboard data. I actually checked the site and it’s very cool. In the paper, they mention two of the most present phthalates in cosmetics -according to the paper- as being linked to male reproductive defects. So, I used EPA’s tool and as you can see in the image I attached, they both have very low ER bioactivity (https://www.epa.gov/endocrine-disruption/endocrine-disruptor-screening-program-edsp-estrogen-receptor-bioactivity). Di(2-ethylhexyl) phthalate even has a score of 0. You can do this with any of the endocrine disruptors they mentioned in the paper with more or less the same result. You can check the full list of possible endocrine disruptors EPA already evaluated, almost all not having convincing evidence of endocrine activity (except for 3 or 5 I think, that were recommended to be tested again). I’ll attach it in a different post.
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I think I might regret this, but could you share the peer-reviewed literature that you reviewed? It is a bit odd that all of those toxicologists (many of them independent) agree on the safety of those materials, while some organizations like the EWG which has less than qualified “reviewers” reached to different conclusions.
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There’s a reason why companies don’t use that much fragrance in these type of products, and it’s the risk of skin irritation/sensitization. Will you perform a clinical study in a certified lab, to check your product is safe in use?
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Thank you @chemicalmatt ????. Indeed, it was a typo (one of the mechanical ones -damn keyboard-, not the brain ones, which I also have a lot of, hehe).
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Your hair gets a lot of moisture from water during your shower. After that, what you want is to restore its hydrophobicity. That’s the one responsible for all the mechanical and optical features of a healthy hair.
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No worries. Probably the products you saw put just few drops of oils, enough so polysorbate 20 would solubilize them. Good you’re using PV/VA copolymer. You could add some PVP if you want more fixation (but not so much, since it’s very hygroscopic).