Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating Advise for increasing viscosity of cream

  • Advise for increasing viscosity of cream

    Posted by fekher on March 14, 2024 at 1:06 pm

    Hi all I want your advise for increasing viscosity for cream containing(gms, ceteareth as emulsifiers, Cetearyl alcohol, oil and additifs)

    Adding fragrance cream loose viscosity, which gelifiant is compatible(and best) for my system :

    Neutralised carbomer, Xanthan gum, Hpmc, Hec, other…

    @Paprik @Perry44 @chemicalmatt

    @Abdullah @PhilGeis @Graillotion @Pharma others

    fekher replied 2 weeks, 3 days ago 6 Members · 37 Replies
  • 37 Replies
  • paprik

    Member
    March 14, 2024 at 8:58 pm

    Hi,

    would be good to list all ingredients. Without knowing what exactly is in the formula I would say you are save using Xanthan Gum and HEC.

    [HPMC is more suitable for foaming surfactant systems and Carbomer network is easily broken with electrolytes, unless you’re using electrolyte tolerant/resistant one].

    Viscosity is build with waxy materials. So your rheology modifier might help with it, it might be better to use more waxy material to build the structure.

    • fekher

      Member
      March 15, 2024 at 1:37 am

      Thanks alot, so the list ingredients is:

      Water, mpg, sabowax AE, ceteareth 20,gms,parafin oil, petrolatum, Cetearyl alcohol, edta, citric acid, sensicare c1090, perfume (which cause loosing viscosity) . I eliminated hot process because cream already cold now that’s why I did not go with wax, Cetearyl alcohol…

      • ketchito

        Member
        March 15, 2024 at 6:33 am

        I hope I didn’t get it wrong, but I assume you’re adding your fragrance at around 45°C and with low shear. It that’s making you lose some viscosity, you could add some polymeric emulsifier like Sepigel 305 or Rheoluxe 812.

        • fekher

          Member
          March 15, 2024 at 9:48 am

          Thanks for the information about adding fragrance with low shear around the 40°C I didn’t know about it is the any explanation and better process for adding fragrance (lower temperature, other shear …).

          I will do researchement about your in put, just because I should correct quickly I made just try one with ultrez 21 and other with carbopol 996. Ultrez 21 gave better result but for economical reason I made correction with carbomer 996.

          When I find occasion I will try some others corrections with :Hec, Hpmc, parafin wax, Cetearyl alcohol…

        • fekher

          Member
          March 16, 2024 at 9:05 am

          I made some researchement about your input and it seems lovely one, just why formulator will go with them versus carbomers? Referring to (coast/quality)

        • fekher

          Member
          March 21, 2024 at 12:34 pm

          Any share please? @ketchito

    • fekher

      Member
      March 21, 2024 at 12:28 pm

      @Paprik any add?

    • fekher

      Member
      March 21, 2024 at 1:04 pm

      @Paprik any start point for Hec and xanthan gum?<div>

      And for wax what about paraffin wax, have you better suggestions?

      </div>

      • paprik

        Member
        March 21, 2024 at 5:15 pm

        Hi,

        I am sorry, there is a loooot going on.

        Hm, I do not use HEC in emulsions, I feel like it soaps a lot and .. yeah, never really grew to it.

        I do use good grade of Xanthan Gum and usually my starting point is 0.4%, but again depending on formula.

        I have never worked with paraffin wax, so I cannot help with this. It really depends how you want the product to perform and feel.

        • fekher

          Member
          March 21, 2024 at 5:56 pm

          Answer late better then not answering, I hate soap effect in cream almost reference use it between 0.2% and 0.3% the xanthan gum may I will try your level 0.4%.

  • abdullah

    Member
    March 16, 2024 at 1:21 am

    How much fragrance and that preservative is in your formula and what is the pH? That preservative and fragrance both reduce viscosity.

    I use 0.005% fragrance in my lotions and it smell very well. You don’t need to add high amount of fragrance in a leave on emulsion.

    For this batch you can add 0.2% xanthan gun in 1 or 2% glycerin and mix it with high shear mixer. Also add a preservative for fungi too.

    • fekher

      Member
      March 16, 2024 at 8:56 am

      The level of perfume is near to 0.8% I know that’s soo high but I must work sush level, then sush level is not the reason because with other fragrances with same level I reached very better viscosity. The level of sensicare c 1090 is 0.8% when you make researchement this preservative is effective for bacteria, fungicide and yeast, so why you supposed to add some fungicide?

      • abdullah

        Member
        March 17, 2024 at 8:50 pm

        It is not enough in my experience. I think it was 0.7 or 0.8% and pH 5-5.5.

        You can try it. Make a 0.2% guar gum solution with 0.8% of this preservative and you will see.

        • fekher

          Member
          March 18, 2024 at 9:21 am

          Thanks a lot what about adding 0.2% sodium benzoate?

          • abdullah

            Member
            March 19, 2024 at 11:11 pm

            What is your pH?

            Sodium benzoate is my most favorite anti fungal but i only make emulsions at pH 4-4.5.

            I would increase it to 0.5% because it is inexpensive and very pH sensitive

            • fekher

              Member
              March 20, 2024 at 11:14 am

              My ph 4.9 however have you reference for 0.5% level because from researchement I find in cosmetic it is used in 0.2% level.

            • abdullah

              Member
              March 20, 2024 at 8:30 pm

              You should have 0.1% in acid form and at pH 4.9 only 16% is in acid form. With 0.2% you will only have 0.03% preservative.

            • fekher

              Member
              March 21, 2024 at 12:31 pm

              How did you calculate 16% please and with @PhilGeis do you think for pH between 5_5.5 combination 0.8%phenoxyethanol 0.2 sodium will be good for cream and no high ethoxylated cosmetic products?

            • PhilGeis

              Member
              March 21, 2024 at 2:54 pm

              pH is sure on the high side, esp. for a cream. You need something for fungi. Maybe sorbate but stability can be an issue. Parabens would be best - if your policy allows. Can you find a combination with IPBC?

            • fekher

              Member
              March 21, 2024 at 3:59 pm

              So ipbc and parabens are allowed which type of parabens you recommend and their levels, and will be good combination 0.1% IPBC and 0.8 %phenoxyethanol. (I don’t know if I can find IPBC)

            • PhilGeis

              Member
              March 21, 2024 at 5:44 pm

              methyl parabens 0.2%and propyl 0.1%

              with phenoxy - phenonip[

              • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 1 day ago by  PhilGeis.
            • fekher

              Member
              March 21, 2024 at 5:59 pm

              Thanks a lot @PhilGeis for IPBC for leave on is it good 0.1% level?

            • PhilGeis

              Member
              March 21, 2024 at 6:42 pm

              Think CIR has it up to 0.1% (you should check.. I’ve used it at much less, down to 100 ppm Issue with anything that low in % and low water solubility is adequate distribution in batch. Some dissolve in glycol

            • abdullah

              Member
              March 21, 2024 at 9:23 pm

              If you can reduce pH to 4.5 or below, SB will work very well and it is inexpensive too.

              IPBC is not very water soluble so dont forget to dissolve in first

            • fekher

              Member
              March 22, 2024 at 12:25 am

              Thanks a lot for the precious answers @PhilGeis @Abdullah so the emulsion don’t solve the solibilty problem of IPBC?( It seems paraben are the best)

            • fekher

              Member
              March 22, 2024 at 2:17 am

              What is the reference of that curve please?

            • abdullah

              Member
              March 24, 2024 at 8:16 pm
            • fekher

              Member
              March 25, 2024 at 11:58 am

              Thanks @Abdullah if you can make screen shot the link did not open.

            • abdullah

              Member
              March 25, 2024 at 8:56 pm
            • fekher

              Member
              March 25, 2024 at 11:49 pm

              Thanks a lot @Abdullah

        • fekher

          Member
          March 22, 2024 at 1:06 am

          What do you think about 0.8% sensicare c 1090 as cosmetic preservative? @PhilGeis and @Abdullah take look for this I guess it is reference

          https://www.ulprospector.com/fr/na/PersonalCare/Detail/124608/748120/SENSICARE-C-1090

  • abdullah

    Member
    March 16, 2024 at 1:24 am

    If your batch is not so big, you can make another batch without fragrance and mix them.

    Although i advise to always use 0.2% xanthan gun for viscosity and stability

    • fekher

      Member
      March 16, 2024 at 8:59 am

      For the grade of xanthan gum that I have in only water(not emulsion) 0.2% did not give convinced viscosity and even in sensory aspect it is not lovely.

      • abdullah

        Member
        March 17, 2024 at 6:10 am

        In emulsion it is different, you have other types of thickeners too and they work in synergy.

        • fekher

          Member
          March 17, 2024 at 8:02 am

          Thanks for this interesting add I suspect to synergy that’s why mentioned that 0.2% did not give convinced thickening effect(in water not in emulsion) . May I will try it when I have time.

  • soapworksdupe

    Member
    March 25, 2024 at 1:04 pm

    check out speigel 305!

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