[Gunther]

You can either 
A. buy a premade, water-soluble silicone emulsion.
Those from DOW are great, but they usually only sell by 18 or 200 Kg drums.
You can buy small amodimethicone amounts from shops like
https://www.makingcosmetics.com/Amodimethicone_p_975.html
But I don’t know how this one works in skin products. It works great for hair products tough. (I’m not affiliated with makingcosmetics in any way).

B. emulsify silicone yourself
For shampoos you can neutralize LABSA with TEA and use it to emulsify silicones, but that’s only suitable for shampoos, not for skincare.
Emulsiying silicones with nonionic emulsifiers is tricky.

C. buy a water soluble modified silicone
Water soluble ones don’t work well for shampoos, but are probably OK for skincare.

[Gunther]

Nice, thaks a lot.

[Gunther]

Oils, butters and cetyl alcohol serve no function in shampoos and they just reduce cleansing, foaming and will need an emulsifier to avoid separation.
Panthenol does nothing in a rinse off product and it just ends up in the drain.
Remove them or at least reduce them to claims ingredient levels.

That formula has no preservative, especially scary since aloe vera readily rottens itself.

[Gunther]

ngarayeva001 said:

I tried amodimethicone by makingcosmetics (in shampoo). Quite a nice material and easy to work with.

Amodimethicone suppresses foam less, and deposits itself on hair better than dimethicone or dimethiconol does.

[Gunther]

Try without Cocamide DEA
it can leave a sticky afterfeel.

Definitely get rid of PEG-400, it has no use in handwash.
What’s PG? Propylene glycol? If so, get rid of that too.

Consider adding some cocamidopropyl betaine for mildness and too reduce the salt amount needed to thicken it.

[Gunther]

khoikhoa said:

using carbomer to suspend dimethicone & oil

You need something that effectively emulsifies silicones (BTW oils have no place in shampoos, unless it’s a claim ingredient or essential oils as fragrances)
Just using a thickener won’t work.

[Gunther]

All shampoo surfactants remove oil from hair.
So you can only:
A. Co-wash as @ngarayeva001 suggested
B. Formulate a very mild shampoo that removes little oil from hair
C. Use a post-shampoo conditioner or hair treatment that restores oils.

[Gunther]

Perry said:

Yes, dimethicone copolyol is a good option, although much less conditioning than dimethicone

Totally agree.
Water soluble silicones aren’t nearly as conditioning.
For silicones to work, they must be water insoluble.

So, @greenviv you have 2 options:
1. Emulsify silicone yourself.
You can make some concentrated LABSA neutralized with TOEA (TEA), then emulsify silicone in it, then blend with the rest of the shampoo.

2. You can buy a premade silicone blend.
Those made by DOW are great, but they usually only sell by the 20/200 Kg drums.
For smaller quantities you can buy something like 
https://www.makingcosmetics.com/Amodimethicone_p_975.html?locale=en
albeit it may prove pricey in the long run.
(I’m not affiliated with makingcosmetics in any way).

No matter if #1 or #2,
make sure your formula includes something to increase silicone deposition on hair.

[Gunther]

Belassi said:

Here in Mexico they don’t even list the ingredients. A disgrace.

A bit OT but
Do you happen to have a link to restricted ingredients for human use in Mexico?
I heard Cofapris (a gov’t agency) handles that but I couldn’t find anything in their website.
Thanks.

[Gunther]

Please stop spreading misinformation

Cocamide DEA was never really proven to cause cancer by itself.
Their findings couldn’t be readily replicated so its believed cancer was caused by a by-product, not CDEA itself.

The Cancer Research Institute doesn’t test chemicals at all. They just fund some experimental therapy studies.

The International Agency for Research on Cancer does test chemicals.
For CDEA it 

68603-42-9

Coconut oil diethanolamine condensate

2B

101

2013

https://monographs.iarc.fr/list-of-classifications-volumes/
Its monograph fits in the Group 2B: The agent is possibly carcinogenic to humans.

There is limited evidence of carcinogenicity in humans and less than sufficient evidence in experimental animals. It may also be used if there is inadequate evidence in humans but sufficient evidence in experimental animals. Occasionally, an agent (or mixture) may be placed in group 2B if there is inadequate evidence in humans and less than sufficient evidence in experimental animals but there is supporting evidence of carcinogenicity from mechanistic and other relevant data. An agent or a mixture may also be classified in this category solely on the basis of strong evidence of carcinogenicity from mechanistic and other relevant data

Ginko Biloba extract, Kava extract, magnetic fields, Medroxyprogesterone acetate, metronidazole, Nickel metallic and alloys, Oxazepam, Phenobarbital, Progestins, Radiofrequency electromagnetic fields, polygeenan (carrageenan derivative), goldenseal root powder belong to the same group, are widely used, some of them even taken by mouth, some are even FDA approved meds, and not proven to cause cancer.

[Gunther]

IMO People would be more interested in a package that includes videos and online troubleshooting consultation, and not just an Ebook.

You can also partner as a raw materials reseller, both for an extra profit, and to offer a better value for customers so they know where to source all the ingredients.
You may need to repackage to sell smaller quantities, so customers don’t have to buy the whole drum.

[Gunther]

Few ingredients in leave on products (i.e. skin creams) actually make a noticeable difference, most don’t.

Rinse off products like face wash have too little time to act on the skin.
The best you can do is to formulate a very mild facewash so it doesn’t irritate skin, but that’s about it.

Hint: stay away from pseudoscientific blogs that praise or bash some ingredients without any scientific proof.

[Gunther]

It only proves that the word Science draws crowds
Even if there’s no science in /r/HaircareScience, just anecdotal experiences.

By the way, they should have called it /r/CurlyGirlShills instead.

[Gunther]

Either:

A. Add some SLES

B. Add some extra LABSA+NaOH

C. Add both A and B
D. Add some extra salt

Always add salt dissolved in water (i.e. a 25% salt solution), never in powder form.
Add salt in small increments, like 0.1% (active NaCl), or better yet, do a salt curve experiment to find out the optimum salt amount.

[Gunther]

Some people get pretty bad allergic reactions to aloe vera. Keep an eye to see if the dog becomes itchy.

The best proven approaches for AD are:
-topical steroids and antinflammatories. You can make a spray for ease of application.
- topical antibiotics that kill Staphylococcus aureus bacteria.
-oral vitamin D supplementation
-occlusives. An occlusive petrolatum and silicone spray may help, but make sure the emulsifier doesn’t make it worse. You can add some glycerin to it.
-a very mild shampoo. You can try a CAPB-only shampoo.

[Gunther]

Thank you all guys.

Will try some glass etching or sandblasting to see how it goes.

[Gunther]

Doesn’t the high amount of CAPB makes it hard to thicken?
Or does CAPB help thicken sarcosinates too, like it does with SLES?

[Gunther]

smok said:

what do you think if you try TEA  INSTEAD OF NAOH

That won’t work.
TEA-linear alkylbenzene sulfonate is yellow-orange colored, not clear.

[Gunther]

I asked because in some formulations you need to top if off to 100%, usually to compensate for water evaporation because of heating.
Therefore you need an accurate mark.

[Gunther]

ngarayeva001 said:

This is a shampoo formula. Total active surfactants 15%

INCI	%
Aqua	48.5%
Tetrasodium EDTA	0.2%
Glycerin	1.0%
Cocamidopropyl Betaine	20.0%
Sodium C14-16 Olefin Sulfonate	5.0%
Sodium Lauroyl Sarcosinate	17.0%
Cocamide DEA	2.0%
Polyquat 7	0.5%
Polyquat 10	0.8%
Amodimethicone	1.0%
PEG-7 Glyceryl cocoate	1.5%
Germaben II	1.0%
Crothix Liquid	1.5%

It’s very mild conditioning formula. As you can see it’s sulfate free and the surfactants used here are rather difficult to thicken. I use both CDEA and Polyquat 10 to add to viscosity. Crothix alone isn’t sufficient here.
By the way it will be clear if you heat the CDEA with a little bit of water before adding to other surfactants. Other than that it’s cold process.

Interesting formula.
-  Is that 0.8% active PQ-10 (in powder form)?
-  What’s the emulsifier for amodimethicone?

[Gunther]

ngarayeva001 said:

It’s a secondary surfactant that improves foaming and adds viscosity. I like using it in sulfate-free products.

May I ask how much CDEA do you usually use?
I found it leaves a sticky afterfeel over 1%

[Gunther]

There are many silicate grades available. You’d need to know which one the commercial product uses.
Be careful, many silicates have a high pH which can damage skin.

[Gunther]

wael said:

My hair conditioner is turning into pink after several days of manufacturing, I will insert my formula:

Water: 83.8%

Trilon B: 0.1%

Citric Acid: 0.04%

Ctac: 5.95%

Ginol 16-18: 6&

Paraffin oil: 1.5%

Mirasil C-DML: 1.6%

Fragrance: 0.8%

Euxyl K120: 0.11%

Please post what the chemical ingredients in these brands are.
Remove paraffin oil.

[Gunther]

EU regulations state that the maximum allowed is
0.4% methylparaben, 0.14% propylparaben
You can use a bit less than that, something like 90% or 75% of these maximum quantities.

Albet those amounts don’t necessarily guarantee that the product will be preserved, so microbiological challenge tests are still needed in all commercial cosmetic formulations.

[Gunther]

Aziz said:

@Gunther I made a batch with PQ7 2% , it was unpleasant. 

  

Thank you. Would you mind elaborating on what you meant by unpleasant?