Graillotion
Forum Replies Created
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Just a source of polysaccharides…. of which there are many sources…. But people like the trendy, marketable name.
Search ‘beta glucans’ …. and you’ll have your answer.
In the past it was typically sourced from oats….and why you saw so much ‘oat’ this and that….in formulas.
Good luck.
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Let me toss part of this topic to Dr Geis….or others…. Over the years, Dr Geis has instilled in me the fear of God….and so I have avoided anything with oat solids. Beta Glucans have always intrigued me though. (Granted this fear has kept me from studying it extensively….as can be concluded by my above, simple question). Do they bring with them….the bug food potential of say….colloidal oats? I would have to assume less…. just wondering how much less….if any? Asked another way….what it the big draw (portion) of the oat….that bugs want to feast on?
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Numerous ways to address this….
1) Add a chelate…this really helps with mold.
2) Add some propanediol and pentylene glycol…will make it a better formula…and give extra hurdles.
3) add a preservative that specializes in mold…above and beyond what you have.
3) What the heck is the pH doing that high? (Hello lactic acid!)
4) OMG…lose some of the bug food. Lose the aloe…and replace the oat stuff with beta glucan. There are no known preservatives that will not fail….when pushed over the edge. Give your preservative a little help, and it will treat you right.
Good luck.
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Have you checked to see if your carbomer is even gelling with the Na PCA? Many carbomers will not gel when hanging out with that crowd.
Just mix your carbomer in water….at formula rate….then add the Na PCA at formula rate….and observe if any change in viscosity.
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Consider adding 1,3 Propanediol and pentylene glycol to your arsenal. Both can be bio-based….supplier dependent.
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There is a concept in formulating, where every ingredient either helps with, or hinders the overall formula’s preservation profile. Very few ingredients would be considered completely neutral in that regard.
However, all the ones you mentioned should fall into the positive category. The only one I do not use is PG, for two reasons. It is usually petrol based, and with its short carbon chain, it is not nearly as boosting as something like pentylene glycol. I prefer my glycols to work in the preservation segment more so than in the humectant side, albeit they typically do both. (Prowess of each…determined by carbon chain length.)
I have grown to appreciate the skin after-feel of sodium lactate, and kinda love everything ‘lactic’. Granted you lose a lot of polymeric options….but I have been loving products made with Na Lactate and Hydrovance (Hydroxyethyl Urea). I still toss a kiss of glycerin into this soup….gotta keep those aquaporins alive and kicking.
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Lume: And you can get there many ways….just get there. ????
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I should mention….I have never used Na-PCA in a full blown formula with supporting humectants and barrier function. I like for ingredients to impress me neat first. According to Mr Deckner, he likes it paired with glycerin….hehehe….which has only made me MORE skeptical….hmmmmn. (Doesn’t everything work as a good humectant….when paired with glycerin? ???? )
As one of my favorite comedians on this site once said…maybe George was just filling his quota of verbiage on UL Prospector? ????
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165…all the way.
I like to use a 1 part to 10 of an anionic, to make it ‘bulletproof’. This can be GSC, SSG, or what I have been using lately… Potassium Cetyl Phosphate.
As far as the polymeric. I was always taught that fundamentally…a water gelling agent always enhanced the stability of the emulsion….gums or polymerics. Obviously…. if the addition can enhance the haptics….then even better. As far as what feels good…to me… Zen the worst… Aristoflex AVC the best. You can play around with blending AVC with EMT 10 or carbomer….70% AVC and 30 of the latter…I think you’ll find something you’ll like. I like to keep the overall polymeric around .7% to .8%….as I seek just a gel undertone.
If you really want to dress it up…add some pentylene glycol….and thank me later (1.5 to 2%) Not only will your preservation system thank you….but it makes water feel wetter….and combined with fast breaking AVC….you are on your way to something. 🙂
Aloha!
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Guessing 1% line is just after the Niacinamide….hence the peptides is probably similar to the contents of a sneeze. 🙂 So everything above the 1% line is dirt cheap. Easy!
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Sodium stearate….and I concur….they left a word out before castor oil… A word like ‘hydrogenated’ cus they wanted to sound natural. ????
I would be a little suspect on the preservation system….as it appears only their deo active is used in that double duty. Very much guessing….there has been some omissions.
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Thank you for the files.
Have you used BG’s? The word ‘film former’ always puts a little trepidation into my heart, as I want moisturizers that feel like they are not there. When you add BG….does it add any feel to the product….good, bad or otherwise?
Did you notice any enhanced moisturization compared with the base vehicle?
Aloha, and Happy New Year. @jemolian
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It is only being sold as a cosmetic ingredient, @PhilGeis
My question about ‘food grade’ was only a query into whether it would have tighter tolerances, than the more lax ‘cosmetic’ grade.
I did think that was leaving a lot on the shoulders of the preservation system.
Aloha.
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I grew up in the era of Bob and Doug McKenzie, and the Great White North….So of course all Canadians say ‘eh’! ???? ⛄
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What country are you in?
Here are two repackers in the US that carry bio based pentylene glycol:
Pentylene Glycol BIO 1460 | MakingCosmetics
Pentylene Glycol (formulatorsampleshop.com)
makingcosmetics.com
Pentylene Glycol BIO 1460 | MakingCosmetics
Hydrolite 5 green, natural pentylene glycol
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@jemolian I had not seen that site before…but maybe I’ll check it out….since I am making up the contest…as I go.
The formula will be broken into segments similar to this:
humectants
emulsifiers
natural lipids
emollients
claim ingredients
water gelling agents….etc…etc…
Their choices will be limited to ingredients I have on hand (a VAST array) , and the entire group will get to comment for 24 hours on each segment….but only 10 members will actually get to vote. The group gets to try and influence the panel…with their arguments for ingredient selection. Once they have completed all segments…..I will make the formula….and send it off to a celebrity (cosmetic) panel for judging. Wish me luck. ????
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Thank you Dr Geis….so would something like Liquid Germall Plus (INCI Diazolidinyl Urea (and) Iodopropynyl Butylcarbamate (and) Propylene Glycol fit the bill….as is has a couple of other things along for the ride….(safe to breath). ?
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???? As a reader of old forums…NONE of the old links work (pre-remodel)…nothing to do with expiration, everything to do with the remodel. ????
I assume……you are referring to David Steinberg’s book?
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Ever since the forum got the remodel….none of the old links work anymore. @Microformulation any chance you still have this link handy?
I would enjoy the read.
Aloha.
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Hah…never thought of that…. ????
But OMG…I would have never guessed this result…. #2…Yes…but number 1????? (Used ‘Body Lotion’ for search criteria.)
I notice this is just sales from the last month…..so maybe #1…has an incredible Black Friday special?
Thank You.
Hehehe….I’ll report back in a month….how ‘herding cats’ goes. ???????? I’ll select 10 of them….break the formula into pieces…..and let them select the ingredients I have from each category….like barrier, emulsifier, water gelling agent, emollients, lipids, preservatives (with supervision) chelates, and one claim ingredient. Fortunately….I have hundreds….hehehe.
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Laughing my Arsh off… Marie had now taken their (FB) course, and is worse than ever! And apparently, was not willing to pay for it….so has to work them off, by trying to sell them in the middle of all her videos. ???? She went from bad….to intolerable.
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Never made a cold process emulsion in my life. ???? I love the melty things too much. ????
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Was there supposed to be some links? None appeared.
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@chemicalmatt one more question…as this is a plant forum…right? ????
We often spend big bucks on potting soils that contains mycorrhiza, and we also know that not all soil bacteria are bad! So typically, the use rate floats around 2-3% but also up to 12.5% of the 3% H2O2 in H2O. At this rate…are we damaging these friendly’s….or is the dilution sufficient that we would just irritate them at best? At what rate of H2O2 inclusion…are we not going to damage our friendlies?
I have seen a plant blogger (kinda like a mommy blogger in cosmetics)…which I would consider just one step above normal plant blogger people….but does not have a Masters or PhD. She distinguished pharmaceutical grade H2O2 with food grade H2O2, and said that many times the Pharma grade is co-stabilized with silver!? Do you concur? And where the heck….does one buy food grade H2O2?
Aloha.
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@chemicalmatt Hey Matt….I’m gonna take this one WAY off course. I am a plant guru….and H2O2 is often used in plant supplementation. There is however a concern among the educated….of what is being used as stabilizers in store bought H2O2 (and the benefit…or mainly lack there of…for plants). Question….are there sources available (to the common man) that are devoid of stabilizers (talking hopefully the 3% dilution….but able to do the maths….if not) that one could use on plants….and still sleep well at night?
Aloha