[Graillotion]

You are asking a lot of the Mommy blogger resellers… Typically they do not even know which way is up. I suspect I know which one you are having the experience with, as of late, they have been sending fully rancid oils to their customers. (I help out on a beginner forum…so I hear things.) I have quizzed them/her (owner) numerous times, and the only metric they use is profit.

I mean how ironic would it be….to expect a reseller to know how to handle or test a lipid, if on the same shelf they have Leucidal products and Geogard products, feigning as acceptable?

Assuming you are in the USA there is only one repacker I would purchase small amounts from. (I categorize Jedwards as a little bit larger amount, hence excluding them from the conversation.) That would be Simply ingredients. The owner is an industry expert and cosmetic chemist. I don’t think she would mind if I shared a couple sentences, she has shared with me a few months ago. Here is her direct quote:

“Unfortunately, most companies don’t buy expensive oils. They’re viewed as commodities. It’s really unfortunate because I don’t think they are. 🙁 Expensive oils and stable oils cost money. I actually conduct peroxide and anisidine testing on my oils, routinely, to check for rancidity.”

*** Actually since you don’t see the whole message…. She is not checking for rancidity…but the very beginning of the process of rancidity starting. Rancidity is like a snowball rolling down hill and picking up speed. So she is checking if the process has been started!!!

There you see the tests that should be performed periodically. Is the company you purchased from doing this… I would wager my monthly wage… THEY ARE NOT! (I am retired and do not collect money from the government ????.)

Bottom line… buyer beware! There is a good option, you just have to choose to execute it. Granted SI does not have a vast array of lipids…but once you understand lipids and FA profiles….you quickly realize that a handful of oils…can cover all your needs. I formulate almost extensively out of her collection. Living in Hawaii….I do (for claim) need to use a little Mac Nut oil, and Kukui. ????

You have been enlightened….go forward with the best.

[Graillotion]

Not that I should ever add on to a Dr Phil comment…but two of the ingredients, performance will be very tied to pH…which you did not mention. 🙂

[Graillotion]

Never worked with it…but have heard that Tragacanth Gum….likes to limbo with pH. 🙂

[Graillotion]

With shipping…all the variables are out of your control. Your issue is…what makes a whipped product whipped…is trapped air. That is difficult to keep in place. As your product is exposed to heat and vibration, slight melting starts to commence…your whipped in air will escape.

You have two options. 1) The one I see beginners use….is not selling during the hotter months of the year. 2) increase the melt point of your ingredients. This will give nominal benefit. As someone that worked for a shipping company in my youth, the temps the packages go through….is inhumane. ????

Good Luck.

[Graillotion]

Might take a look at C10-18 Triglycerides. It is an interesting ingredient.

When I was working on an emulsified body butter….I was able to get a good butter like texture, using GMS with other thickeners…fatty alcohols and waxy esters. (I use a 95% mono version of GMS.)

[Graillotion]

Might tag in the expert… @PhilGeis

I think that concern is mainly inhalation…but I am not an expert. Always memba….concept you are concerned with…is produced by the human body. ???? Have not seen such stickers…on ????.

[Graillotion]

You can create reasonable stability testing at home…with centrifuge, incubator and freezer.

PET is a ‘No-Go’ at home. Trust me…you want bona fide PET test result for your lawyer to keep on hand. ????

[Graillotion]

Am I on drugs….or did you swap the triethyl citrates for way more vitamin E than should be in a formula? ????

Do a knock out…. remove the EO’s and reduce the vitamin E to .2%.

[Graillotion]

Also as knock out…. make a small throw away batch…with no preservative. Sometime that can be the culprit…. If it doesn’t irritate…then switch up the preservation….but probably in my earlier guesses.

BTW without the triethyl citrate…you have zero actives… What are you trying to accomplish?

ZR only absorbs odor…not really a bactericide.

[Graillotion]

Sorry…keep noticing things… Do you really have Vitamin E….twice?

BTW… I’d probably start from scratch… guessing even if this doesn’t irritate…. not going to be overly effective?

What was your final pH.

[Graillotion]

Ok…. that mommy bloggerism…just got WAY topped for the month… Check out this one (see bold):

You got me (mostly thinking and planning, but a modest beginning, as well) into DIY and, in the process, I’ve come across articles about DMAE. It seems one must be extremely aware how much they use (recommended not more than 1%) and what other ingredients it is mixed with. If uncertain, anyone attempting a DIY project including DMAE should contact a professional; such as Lotioncrafters.

OMG…. I can’t stop laughing.

[Graillotion]

I think EDTA and GLDA have the same number of negative charges, unlike something like sodium phytate. I guess the concern would be precipitants…and if they form, which can be verified with testing.

The way I understood chelates and cationics from my mentor was….use the ones with the fewest negative charges…and use them at very very low rates.

Here is a snippet from him…when we were hashing through a formula with Varisoft Eq:

Phytic acid has up to 12 negative charges which is three times that of TSGD or EDTA. It’s a cationics nightmare. The others may actually work because they’re added in traces compared to the cationic ingredient. From a chemistry perspective, it’s unlikely that a TSGD-Varisoft complex forms which precipitates. Most likely, there will be electrostatic interactions between the two but nothing which you could feel or see, just the kind which potentially reduces long-term stability.

He leaned towards using GLDA at ultra low rates.

Good luck.

[Graillotion]

I worked for both UPS and USPS during my college years…. NEVER ONCE….read a sticker on a box. ???? (Maybe I should add…. and was never ever told….to read a sticker on a box! ???? )

[Graillotion]

You’re funny. Ever seen a UPS truck with an air conditioner? (Other than leaving the door open on a cold day.)

Just for fun….look up the melt point between cetyl and behenyl alcohol. 🙂

[Graillotion]

Unfortunately….they left the million dollar barn door open. There will still be essentially no barrier to entry. ???? I couldn’t have been more upset with this legislation….entirely for that reason. Still gonna be…. ???? in the USA…under a million.

[Graillotion]

If you live in the USA…it is not a requirement … Just prudent. We still operate in a cometic ‘Wild wild West’ here. ???? or maybe…. ????

We have an essentially unenforceable mandate from the FDA….to produce a ‘SAFE’ product.

[Graillotion]

Dang @Perry44 …. we need a ‘Like’ button. ????

[Graillotion]

If you don’t get the performance, you were hoping for…once you get the irritation in line… try knocking the pH down to 3.8 and see how you like it. ???? This is a picture….taken in one of the leading products in this space.

[Graillotion]

And………is has ever so much nicer looking INCI than: Hydroxypropyl Bis-Hydroxyethyldimonium Chloride ????

[Graillotion]

I’m a little slow to the party…. Are you still fond of Glyceryl Glucoside?

Is this stuff crazy expensive everywhere? I see the Thai place has it. No other USA repackers…that I am aware of.

[Graillotion]

I guess…. then the question to be asked…is what is the value of the overall shea market?

[Graillotion]

Not only has a re-packer never been able to answer a question for me…. I can’t even get them to understand the question, as science is so foreign to them. They are not even aware of the arena the question comes from. ????

One time I got ahold of the owner….after the customer care jockeys kept telling me there GMS was 100% monostearate, (which of course it wasn’t, it was 40%) and the owner was able to tell be the mono content. The balance of the team had never even heard of di and tri stearates.

[Graillotion]

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[Graillotion]

Here is a sample formula, so you can see inclusion rates.

Good Luck…over and out.

[Graillotion]

This formula….is so…. far from standard… I think you should just go back to the drawing board.

What are you trying make? A moisturizing cream? Let me know what you are trying to make…and I paste a couple of formulas…just to give you some guidelines.