Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating Preservatives for Kids Mists and Sprays

  • Preservatives for Kids Mists and Sprays

    Posted by MDBeauty on December 6, 2023 at 9:41 am

    Hi guys,

    I am making a mist for kids linen using Lavender and Chamomile Hydrosols. Which preservatives would you recommend that are aerosol and kid safe? Thanks

    • This discussion was modified 2 months, 4 weeks ago by  MDBeauty.
    PhilGeis replied 1 month, 1 week ago 10 Members · 34 Replies
  • 34 Replies
  • PhilGeis

    Member
    December 6, 2023 at 4:32 pm

    This risks inhalation - so please use a robust system. Suggest a formaldehyde releaser but please not the clean beauty natural stuff.

    • graillotion

      Member
      December 6, 2023 at 7:24 pm

      Thank you Dr Geis….so would something like Liquid Germall Plus (INCI Diazolidinyl Urea (and) Iodopropynyl Butylcarbamate (and) Propylene Glycol fit the bill….as is has a couple of other things along for the ride….(safe to breath). ?

      • This reply was modified 2 months, 4 weeks ago by  Graillotion.
      • PhilGeis

        Member
        December 7, 2023 at 3:57 am

        Prefer Glydant+.

        and do be prepared to formaldehyde concerns. Exposure is de minimis.

        • This reply was modified 2 months, 4 weeks ago by  PhilGeis.
        • MDBeauty

          Member
          December 9, 2023 at 11:49 am

          This is a tough one then because I was hoping not to use one that has formaldehyde.

          • PhilGeis

            Member
            December 9, 2023 at 3:03 pm

            ok - describe product - pH.

            • MDBeauty

              Member
              December 12, 2023 at 6:03 pm

              It will only have the hydrosols and preservative. Just the hydrosols range from 4.8 to 5.9.

        • Anca_Formulator

          Member
          December 13, 2023 at 12:58 pm

          I use Germall Plus Liquid in all of my otherwise 99.5% natural products and I love it, but I do run into consumer perception issues with the formaldehyde donor.

          The Cosmetic Ingredient Review (CIR) Expert Panel evaluated the scientific data and concluded that Diazolidinyl Urea was safe as a cosmetic ingredient up to a maximum concentration of 0.5%. The Cosmetic Ingredient Review Expert Panel has evaluated its safety and found it to be non-irritating to the skin and not phototoxic. Although Diazolidinyl Urea can release formaldehyde, the amount released is well below the recommended exposure limits and is considered safe when using 0.5% Germall Plus. The maximum usage rate of 0.5% Liquid Germall™ Plus results in 0.002% Iodopropynyl Butylcarbamate in finished formulations, which is lower than the 0.02% approved rate.

          Even still, consumer perception is hard to overcome. @PhilGeis is there any other scientific data you can point to that supports its safety and might help with consumer perception?

          • PhilGeis

            Member
            December 13, 2023 at 4:13 pm

            Thanks Anca. I wish I could offer something that informed consumers regarding the risks they assume with the BS clean and natural preservation - or the total BS of the cynical preservative free. But I do not.

            • Anca_Formulator

              Member
              December 14, 2023 at 7:48 pm

              @PhilGeis I have been researching Germall Plus Liquid, focusing primarily on its safety to humans. I just now shifted my attention to its potential environmental impact, specifically its ecotoxicity. Upon reviewing the Safety Data Sheet (SDS), I noticed that this preservative might pose a risk to aquatic life, affecting fish and algae at certain concentrations. While some toxicity levels at a 0.5% concentration of Germall Plus Liquid fall within acceptable limits, others exceed them. I would appreciate any insights or thoughts on this matter, specifically how you would rate the ecotoxity of Germall Plus as a whole rather than by individual components?

              Also, what do you like about Glydant + compared to Germall Plus?

              Thank you!

  • MDBeauty

    Member
    December 9, 2023 at 11:50 am

    @Perry44 Hi Perry, any suggestions on this? Thanks

    • Perry44

      Administrator
      December 10, 2023 at 7:53 am

      I don’t have better advice than what @PhilGeis has suggested. He is an industry expert in preservation & his advice is most reliable on the topic of anyone on this forum.

  • mikethair

    Member
    December 10, 2023 at 2:16 am

    For kid’s linen mists using Lavender and Chamomile Hydrosols, I would be looking at an approach without the use of preservatives. We have done it, and the products sold well globally.

    I should add that they complied with various global compliance requirements. We manufactured in a GMP Certified production facility with two in-house labs, a microbial lab and a physical chem lab.

    • PhilGeis

      Member
      December 10, 2023 at 4:14 am

      Wrong Mike. Whatever sells, inhalation exposure and children is a greater than normal risk scenario.

      • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by  PhilGeis.
      • mikethair

        Member
        December 10, 2023 at 3:18 pm

        What you say is correct, inhalation does expose children to risk because of their higher body-surface ratio.

        But remember, we were manufacturing in a GMP-certified facility that was regularly audited by government authorities. And exporting globally, so the product had to be assessed/passed by various cosmetic compliance regimes including those in the EU, Japan and the USA.

        So, we were comfortable with the product safety.

        Are you suggesting our product was unsafe? Can you suggest what more we could have done?

        • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by  mikethair.
        • PhilGeis

          Member
          December 10, 2023 at 4:42 pm

          To your point - what NOEL’s were you assuming re chemical safety?

          Inhalation of contamination was my concern - and all the GMP and government BS in the world will ensure quality of a preservative free product either as made under nonsterile conditions or in use.

          Yes - unsafe is exactly my comment.

          • mikethair

            Member
            December 10, 2023 at 5:24 pm

            Sorry, despite my many years in skincare manufacturing and compliance work I am unfamiliar with the acronym “NOEL”. Makes me look like a fool I guess, but a more professional approach adopted by us scientists is that all acronyms are fully detailed once in any communication.

            And you are entitled to your opinion re the safety of our product. The global compliance authorities differ.

            • PhilGeis

              Member
              December 10, 2023 at 5:47 pm

              I’d not delegate safety, esp. micro safety, responsibility to government bureaucrats.

              NOEL no observed effect level - based on testing or modeling the level showing no toxic effect - in practice one works with ingredient levels establishing a safety factor (1/100-1000x) .

    • Babel

      Member
      December 10, 2023 at 6:36 am

      Is it possible? How long can hydrosol last without preservatives?

      • PhilGeis

        Member
        December 10, 2023 at 11:36 am
        • MDBeauty

          Member
          December 12, 2023 at 5:59 pm

          I am noticing all on the market use sodium benzoate and potassium sorbate.

      • mikethair

        Member
        December 10, 2023 at 3:27 pm

        We had a use-by date of 12 months from memory. And very important was the container design to avoid contamination.

        As was our practice with all products, a number were retained by our QC Manager and tested regularly in our two on-site labs, a physical chem lab and a microbiology lab. This testing went on for a period that was twice the stipulated shelf life. So with hydrosols 24 months as they had a shelf life of 12 months.

        We never had any problems with the hydrosols.

        • MDBeauty

          Member
          December 12, 2023 at 5:59 pm

          I did think of this but didn’t want to take any chances with the little ones.

          • PhilGeis

            Member
            December 13, 2023 at 4:49 am

            Agree - and with any consumer.

            • This reply was modified 2 months, 3 weeks ago by  PhilGeis.
        • PhilGeis

          Member
          December 13, 2023 at 4:48 am

          Why 12 months.

          Recall please cosmetic preservatives are primarily intended to control contamination in use. “We never had a problem”. Testing quality into a product is questionable GMP’s.

          But yo the justification - why no preservative? As there is a risk, why do you think it appropriate to offer that risk to consumers - here children?

          • microformulation

            Member
            December 15, 2023 at 9:13 am

            After tracking down a contamination issue we had with a product years ago, we narrowed it down to the Hydrosols and their storage after opening the primary container. We solved the issue by dating the Hydrosols upon opening and using them within 56 days (based on microtesting). It solved the issue. At the time we found multiple reports of contamination from this storekeeping of opened Hydrsols.

  • markbroussard

    Member
    December 12, 2023 at 7:22 pm

    @MDBeauty

    Are you using unpreserved Hydrosols?

    • MDBeauty

      Member
      December 13, 2023 at 8:45 am

      We manufacture the hydrosols in house and have the ability to use both preserved and unpreserved.

  • markbroussard

    Member
    December 13, 2023 at 10:38 am

    @MDBeauty

    Then why not use Sodium Benzoate + Potassium Sorbate?

    • MDBeauty

      Member
      December 13, 2023 at 11:02 am

      I wasn’t sure if they were kid, possible inhalation and aerosol safe hence why posing the question to the group.

      • PhilGeis

        Member
        December 13, 2023 at 11:34 am

        What’s pH?

        For safety I’d look at CIR

  • PhilGeis

    Member
    December 15, 2023 at 7:05 am

    SDS addresses the raw material, not in application. Beyond the product, the combination is irrelevant. Down the drain fate is a function of the individual chemical and sanitary sewers/sewage treatment. Sorry, I no longer have relevant environmental safety data. Can only say it met the envir. safety standards.

    • MDBeauty

      Member
      December 28, 2023 at 3:27 pm

      Thanks a bunch Phil

  • natiyo123

    Member
    January 22, 2024 at 11:43 pm

    phenethyl alcohol, an organic acid and propanediol?? also the PEA will go well with your scents

    • PhilGeis

      Member
      January 23, 2024 at 9:54 am

      If using an alcohol - suggest phenoxyethyl rather than phenylethyl. Need to know pH before trying organic acid.

      • This reply was modified 1 month, 1 week ago by  PhilGeis.

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