Graillotion
Forum Replies Created
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A lot of time….emollients serve multiple roles. As an example, many emollients are also solvents, so they are selected based on the balance of the formula, and what needs to be accomplished. The also vary widely in polarity…and this can also influence your selection….
It took me a long time to become friends with C-12-15 AB….but finally it has secured a spot in my top 5. ????
Multitasking Emollients - Prospector Knowledge Center (ulprospector.com)
ulprospector.com
Multitasking emollients are ingredients that can both improve skin feel and provide other significant benefits. They can be used in formulations to thicken, pro
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You could not have picked a word….that has a broader meaning in cosmetics. ????
They are so diverse….and really you have to pick them based on what you are trying to accomplish….or as Perry might suggest…which is lowest cost. ????
Some are occlusive…some are not. Some leave a shine, some do not. Some are volatile, most are not. Some feel a little oily, and others are dry as a popcorn fart. You could list these comparisons…on and on.
Probably I would use UL Prospector, and find a big ester seller…and they will often provide wide ranging charts with spreadability ratings. This for me…is a logical place to start. Albeit…. I did it the old fashioned way…and bought or got samples….of hundreds of them. ????
Another concept to grasp is one called ‘cascading emollience’. I like to say….you can create something that is greater than the sum of the parts…if you implement this concept. If you work it just right….things can feel like they are absorbing much faster than they actually are, because they are all absorbing at different rates.
So, your natural oils/butters…are at the far end of the spectrum, and you build to them with the lighter and mid range ingredients….to create that cascade.
If you go into the knowledge center of ULP….and enter in the search bar…variations of ’emollients’, you will get a number of hits. I’ll enclose one, to get you started. Good Luck.
NOTE: The emollient game…is almost entirely subjective….
The Art of Sensoriality: Ingredients that Transform Everyday Routines (ulprospector.com)
ulprospector.com
The Art of Sensoriality in Beauty & Personal Care: Ingredients that Transform Everyday Routines
In the expansive realm of beauty and personal care, the notion of sensoriality stands as a crucial element, transcending the conventional boundaries of utility.
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Swapped the VariSoft EQ 65 with SPDMA….and cursory observations are looking good. Need to stress it a bit….and see what it looks like.
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It is probably noteworthy….and somewhat my hunch…. that there are NO water gelling ingredients, since all I had on hand were anionic. So, in process of acquiring Polyquaternium-37 (looking at you @chemicalmatt ) and HEC. However, both products are thick creams.
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And yes…I have removed all anionic antagonist, X-gum etc…and using a low charge count chelate at a very low rate.
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The reason people are asking for temps…. the behenyl alcohol in your formula will not melt…until just about 85C…hence the mfg recommendation to heat to this mark.
Cut the butters to a combined total of 1%.
You don’t need fatty alcohol and stearic in the same formula. They are both thickeners…and generally the fatty alcohols are more elegant.
With M 202 you should add a water gelling aspect…and a co-emulsifier. Typically an anionic one is used, but cationic will also work…as long as you craft the formula to handle it.
Add dimethicone to the formula…it will reduce the soaping.
You have no esters…consider adding them…so it feels nice.
Good Luck
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THD is mentioned twice….in this video:
94 - Ask the Formulator - Valerie George, Marissa Plecia on Vimeo
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I am not an expert…but I’d guess it contains a formaldehyde/releasing agent. It is frowned upon to aerosolize that ingredient….as inhalation is its concern.
Just a guess though.
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Here is the products real names…and suppliers/mfg’s.
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Yes….
In the pursuit of trying to create/find a humectant that can be used in anhydrous products…. the industry has gotten creative.
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Hyaluronic Acid, Oleo-HA | Lotioncrafter
lotioncrafter.com
CAS No. Mixture Oleo-HA is an oil-dispersed Sodium Hyaluronate specifically designed for the color cosmetic industry. Oleo-HA allows for the use of usually water-soluble Hyaluronic Acid in color cosmetic products, which are mainly based on oily ingredients. Oleo-HA provides excellent moisturizing, lip-plumping, and rep
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At least for me, it is a little hard to understand what you are asking.
Emulsifiers are necessary evils….so you use them at the inclusion rate that gets the job done. Increasing them beyond the needed amount generally detracts from the product. Generally, one looks at the size of the oil phase, and determines how much to use to emulsify it. Not all emulsifiers are created equal….some are quite potent in small amounts….others need a pretty reasonable amount, to do the same job.
I guess what I’m saying….impossible to answer the vague question without more information.
Good Luck.
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I made the formula yesterday….swapping the VS EQ 65 with SPDMA, and had excellent results…without a gelling agent.
Let me toss a little stress at it…and see where I end up. ????
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I have never worked with a formula with this much fat….so even with the details, I would have to preclude myself from commenting….as this would be way out of the spectrum of what I have worked with. At that point it would be entirely theoretical for me.
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Oh NO!!!!!!! E acetate is NOT an oil antioxidant, only the MT-E version will work in that regard. In chemistry the fine details are important. So good news is…you have not been damaging your oils. Bad news is…. neither have you been protecting them. 🙂 If you can’t find the proper form, ROE is a nice drop-in replacement.
Not sure of what your source of information has been in the past…but consider an upgrade.
Neither I, nor anyone can comment on co-emulsifier inclusion rates, when you have not even selected your primary emulsifier yet.
I’m not sure GO is an ideal choice for an already over-fatted formula. And yes…. GO needs to be paired with something.
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SSG = Sodium stearoyl glutamate
At low rates, MT-E is an antioxidant. As the rate increases, it become the opposite… pro-oxidant.
Never let those with an agenda and a low IQ dictate your formula. Make safe material…or find another hobby.
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You have more than one concern here!
As far as SS….you are correct…it will build very little viscosity. It is however, not a robust emulsifier. Needs a good co-emulsifier.
For your ethos….you can look at GSC (not the same as GMS). SSG…I think that would fit your ethos. Even glyceryl oleate might work in conjunction with a fatty alcohol…and is quite the refatting agent…albeit you already have too much fat.
You need more builders than just gum. Where are your fatty alcohols?… You need to consider cetyl, cetearyl, or behenyl.
You are also missing very basic beginner aspects like …. a chelate. With your ultra sub par preservative…you need to be helping it…not challenging it. GLDA should fit your ethos.
You have selected a partial preservative that is going to hardly function above a pH of 5.5, and yet you have not listed an acid???
Even with proper pH and chelate…you still gonna miss your gram negatives. Consider dropping the whole GeoGard brand. This looks like a formula botanica / Bumble Bee type mess.
Cut the vit E by 80%….it is likely doing more harm than good to your oils at that level.
For bonus points….consider dropping your oils to 10% overall, especially cutting the shea! Apply your oils to your skin….just by themselves….what ever absorbs well…focus on that. In oils….less is more….is KING. Also consider in the oil reduction…removing all the squalane…. hydrocarbons (in my opinion) bring far more grief than value.
And of course….adding an ester….will help considerably.
Good luck.
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Seems like the only place I can get small MOQ on PQ-37 is out of Thailand.
I was hoping for some electrolyte tolerance….and possibly this is a concern with PQ-37?
What do you think of any of the 3rd banana option below? Who would you pick….haptics / electrolyte tolerance / enhanced emulsion stability …. this is what I can get small MOQ.
Solagum Tara
HEC
HP Starch (Hydroxypropyl starch phosphate)
Guar cat?
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It is actually an emulsified deo. Since the pH is in the 3’s…. I was having issues with run of the mill emulsifiers. So, after lots of research, I went with a Montanov type….and 1% of active cationic….and found the perfect balance.
However…I am trying to parley this into a face cream as well. I got some leakage when I went to the more intense face cream formula….so want to add a water gelling agent…and see if this fixes issues. The deo had a kiss of Monolauren….and maybe that kiss of low HLB….is the missing link….to prevent my issue.
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You understand with the lack of information you have given…it is like asking us to guess what color your shirt is.
Only formula bones can help.
You are already at 31% emulsifier to oil phase….typically this should be beyond enough….however…you did not let us know what emulsifier/s…. So, I guess I’ll guess? Nope. ????
If you are using legitimate and compatible emulsifiers….and are having stability issue…. I think your problems are elsewhere.
Always remember…. process can be as important as ingredients.
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Umh… GMS will be profoundly different….than GMS + PEG100 ! ????
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Here is another. If you are not in the US….then search under some of the synonyms.
Tetrasodium Glutamate Diacetate – Essential Labs
essentiallabs.com
Tetrasodium Glutamate Diacetate – Essential Labs
Tetrasodium Glutamate Diacetate is a multi-purpose, clear, liquid chelating agent and preservative booster. Tetrasodium Glutamate Diacetate is made from plant material, readily biodegradable, with high solubility over a wide pH range. Tetrasodium Glutamate Diacetate serves the same function in formulations … Continue reading
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Where is your area? The beginner sites tend to sell it under the wrong name. Here are some USA links:
TSGD (Tetrasodium Glutamate Diacetate) | MakingCosmetics
makingcosmetics.com
TSGD (Tetrasodium Glutamate Diacetate) | MakingCosmetics
Tetrasodium Glutamate Diacetate, GLDA chelate
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BTW…. Like any pro….I would RARELY recommend an e-bay. ETSY or Amazon seller. But if you are in the ‘know’ …. there are actually a few good/reputable sellers. The one I linked….is one of them!
Also here is a link for an excellent chelate that should support your ethos.
TSGD (Tetrasodium Glutamate Diacetate) | MakingCosmetics
makingcosmetics.com
TSGD (Tetrasodium Glutamate Diacetate) | MakingCosmetics
Tetrasodium Glutamate Diacetate, GLDA chelate
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Aloha Act 3.
When you thicken something….that can result in very different haptics….thick is not always ‘thick’. Meaning…. you can make paste…or you can make butter.
GMS (sans the Peg 100) is quite natural…even used widely in cooking. I found it was one of the better thickeners for making a butter like texture. I’ll link a superb version for you…as most of the mommy suppliers sell a 40-45% version…and pretend it is what you want. ????
Sorry…. can never leave ‘well enough’ alone. Please reconsider the aloe…that is nothing but over hyped bug food. I meant something like propanediol (plenty of natural versions sold) , or even building off of betaine or other osmolytes. Even sorbitol or Xylitol (Birtch only) would be better choices than the green goblin.
1.0 lb Glycerol Monostearate GMS Emulsifier• Thickener• Stabilizer. Vegan | eBay
ebay.com
1.0 lb Glycerol Monostearate GMS Emulsifier• Thickener• Stabilizer. Vegan | eBay
Our Distilled Glycerol monostearate h as a monostearate content of no less than 95%. 1.0 lb (454g) Pure distilled Food Grade Glycerol monostearate E471 - Vegan, Kosher, Natural. Distilled monoglycerides is a white powder, oil / water emulsifier that is … Continue reading
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I would say… NO preservatives are natural. Find me ONE…that is not synthesized in a lab. The ones that are sold to the gullible as natural….simply paid a bribe…to have their lab synthesized chemical….certified as ‘natural’. ????
You probably won’t find too many on this site…that will sing “Kum ba yah” with you for all those agencies with their hand out….and with ZERO focus on safety. This group tends to tick with what is safe (you know….science) …not what some group (often lacking knowledge or common sense) chose as their ethos.