[Devesh327]

I think you need to use Pre-dispersed colors in castor oil or it’s alternatives. https://koelcolours.com/ Can help you with the desired colorants for the products that you have mentioned.

koelcolours.com

Pigment Manufacturing Company | Colour Cosmetics Manufacturers - Koel Colours

We are one of the leading Pigments Manufacturing Company. Specialized in manufacturing of a wide range of Colour Dyes, Pigments and Specialty Ingredients.

[Devesh327]

I have not worked with Methicone treated Talc, so I cannot comment on which ones better. However, I have worked with silane treated Talc & that combination has worked for me. I think the choice of binders is the real deal in such products. Silane treated talc performs well with Silane treated pigments. Silane treated in my experience has better spread ability & lighter texture compared to methicone treated. Hope this helped.

[Devesh327]

You will need to use pre - dispersed colorants, preferably dispersed in castor oil or it’s substitutes. You can speak with https://koelcolours.com/ for better understanding of their products.

[Devesh327]

I have been working with hydroxyethylurea which is a derivative of urea that works as a strong moisturizer and humectant meaning that it helps the skin to cling onto water and thus to make it hydrated and elastic. I have come to like it more than glycerine because it feels nicer on the skin as it is non-sticky and non-tacky and gives a lubricous and moist feeling to the skin.

• This reply was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by  Devesh327.

[Devesh327]

Tal said:

This is the effect. Thankyou for your comments. 

If we were to assess this from a method perspective, what is the best practice for

1. Cleaning the plate or mold and 2. Is there any other preparation i can try on the metal  surface prior to injecting?

I generally use IPM to dab the mold/dye if the stick does not look shiny enough. Use a cotton cloth, dip it in isopropylmyristate and swab the plate cavity, repeat after 20-25 uses. 

I second @Gordof on the temperature issue. You have to be careful with that, however with the picture you have provided, I see the pigment is disturbed. Try grinding the pigment finely & maybe use a dispersing agent. Make sure there is no air bubbles while you pour the lipstick in your dye. 

You may want to try pouring  with a new dye too. Sometimes we use sharp objects to clean the dye, Try not to use sharp objects. 
 

[Devesh327]

akrep said:

Thank you @Devesh327 but aren’t oils mandatory?

Mandatory ? I think what you mean is that oils help in the formulation. That they certainly do, However, which oils to go with is a wise choice. I have worked with the wax/oil formulation in liquid lipsticks, my experience was simply that they take a long time to dry, once they do, they are heavy on the lips. With Dermacryl 79 (Polyacrylate formula) the product is super light, has no weight on lips and is non transferable. I’ll share a formula with you, please try and let me know the results. 

Isododecane - 59.30 
Zeemasil T - 4 (Mix with part IDD & add next day) 

Viamerine 10000 - 4 (Active Lip plumping) 
Viamerine WH 36 - 1 (Secondary Lip plumping) 
Silicone Resin GLX 2000 - 3
Aerosil R972 - 3 (Suspending agent) 
Dry Flo TS - 10 (Matting agent) 
Vitamin E Acetate - 1 
Dermacryl 79 - 5 (Film Forming agent) 
Titanium Dioxide - 2 (Pigment) 
Iron Oxide red 911 - 1 
Iron Oxide yellow 923 - 0.70 (Pigment) 
Litho Rubine B Ca lake 112 SF - 4.50 (Pigment) 
Perfume - 1 
Iscaguard PFA - 0.50 (preservative) 

Please try this formula. It is free from all your waxes & oils. This delivers a high performance product. 

[Devesh327]

I see no one’s recommended CCTG. If it has been already mentioned, i apologize. I feel CCTG is a great alternative to castor oil. Slightly expensive yes but does a better job at most things. You could add natural butters to increase your suspension’s viscosity. You can add grape seed oil (20%) to the blend. Both these work brilliantly together. 

[Devesh327]

If you are looking at naturally derived chemicals, Try Lanolin. Its not vegan but its an excellent emollient. 2-4% should be adequate. 

[Devesh327]

You can also try Lexfeel shine. I know you’re looking for naturally derived chemicals, however if you are prepared to add glycerine (which i personally wouldn’t suggest using in lipsticks) why not go for propylene glycol dibenzoate (Lexfeel shine) This product imparts gloss and moisturizes your lips. 

[Devesh327]

Safest way is to add butters. Go with Shea butter (1-4%) and cocoa butter (1-2%). Make sure these butters are cosmetic/edible grade. 

[Devesh327]

Is castor oil wetted pigment compatible with Isododecane in liquid matte lipstick ? @ngarayeva001 Because in my experience, castor oil will separate in IDD Based liquid lipstick. 

[Devesh327]

Ghita37 said:

Thank you @Paprik. The idea to want to develop a face scrub came from my own personal experience.I have dry skin and sometimes my mom would say maybe you need a face exfoliation;your skin looks dry.I go in front of the mirror and look at my face and it looks luster and i would see some very thin dry skin on the forehead and the chin.I told myself okay lets make a homemade face scrub.I googled what are the best ingredients to put in a face scrub for dry skin that also looks for a radiant glow.I found brown sugar; rice powder; oat powder; almond powder; aha and bha and pha for the most senstive skins, and what kind of oils i can incorporate that sooth and nourish the skin.
so i wanted something that remove the dead skin and also something that will slow down the appearence of fine lines ( im saying slow down not prevent cus fine lines we all know are a natural process) so i said just like im unhappy with my skin because of the dead skin im sure others are as well and are looking for ways to slow down fine lines on their skins.

When you mentioned that i want to keep the lipid portion lower do you mean that i shouldnt include many oils in the formulation? if that is what you mean i agree but then if the amount of oil is low the scrub will be too abrasive wont it?
Also like i said i intend to have both a physical and chemical face exfoliant.

A friend of mine had a similar face condition, Although I second @Paprik on using a good serum based moisturizer, I suggest you make a Cream based exfoliate product. I can give you a basic formula to start experimenting with - 

Water Phase 
D.M Water QS
Glycerin 2
Xanthan 0.3 

Oil Phase 
CCTG 5
Glyceryl stearate & PEG 100 - 4.5 
Stearic Acid - 1.5 
Cetyl Alcohol - 1.8
Pummice/ Apricot shell powder - 0.5

AHA - 0.3 
Sodium Bicarbonate - QS

Preservative - QS 

Please try this to counter both your problems of exfoliation & skin dryness. 

[Devesh327]

Instead of using oils in the formulation, why not try a polyacrylate based formula. The product dries out faster. Can try using Dermacryl 79. 

[Devesh327]

I have never made a blush stick, However, I have been making bullet lipsticks for the past 7 years. If I was to go about making your Product, I’d make it like this - 

1.Castor Oil - 25.5
2. CCTG - 10
3. Hydrogenated Polyisobutene - 10
4. octyldodecanol  - 8
5. Cetyl Alcohol - 7
6. Bees Wax - 9
7. Candelila Wax -10
8. Stearic acid - 0
9. Lanolin - 1(instead of soy lecithin) 
10. Shea Butter - 4
11. Pigment - 15 
12. TBHQ + Mpara / Ppara - 0.5
13. Vit e - QS 
14. Fragrance - Shea butter (Mix with Peg-40 Hydrogenated castor oil 1:2)

Also make sure the pigment/ colour you are adding is pre-dispersed. It really helps. TBHQ because it stops oxidation of oils. You can skip parabens if you don’t like them in your formulation. However, they are broad spectrum preservatives and work really well. 

I like to use lanolin as it helps improve the glide, but add too much and it gives your batch a dull cream colour. I personally do not like using stearic acid. However, You can use it according to your formulation. 

Be sure to make the batch first, let it solidify overnight. The next day warm it up a bit and add your pigment, then use a triple roll mill to mix pigment and batch together. If you do not have a triple roll mill, Warm up the batch & use a hand blender to thoroughly mix the pre - dispersed pigment. 

Hope this helps! 

[Devesh327]

Joy said:

Having no tint on the lips is as simple as using less pigment. You can have enough to colour the balm (very little is needed), but not tint the lips.

Exactly ! Use very little pigment just to show a bit of color on your product. Experiment with very low concentrations. I’m sure you will find the right amount with a little experimentation. I use 1.5% pigment in my lip balms. 

[Devesh327]

I am a color cosmetics manufacturer in India. We have been making bullet lipsticks for mass market consumption for about 7 years now. Our oil phase includes Castor oil & CCTG. I have never encountered rancidity in my products however, adding TBHQ is a standard practice that we have followed since day one. If you can find that chemical, please try it. It is the best antioxidant in my experience. Hope this helps ! 

[Devesh327]

chemicalmatt said:

Xanthan will have the highest Yield Value for thixotropy of the two you mention but carbomer will outpace all of these and since you are already using Dermacryl 79 why not use carbomer and neutralize at same time as the other polyacrylate? - a win/win with matchy-matchy acrylic chemistry. (Again, like I been sayin’, xanthan gum is a substance abuse problem worldwide!)

Thank you @chemicalmatt for your valuable suggestion. 

[Devesh327]

chemicalmatt said:

Xanthan will have the highest Yield Value for thixotropy of the two you mention but carbomer will outpace all of these and since you are already using Dermacryl 79 why not use carbomer and neutralize at same time as the other polyacrylate? - a win/win with matchy-matchy acrylic chemistry. (Again, like I been sayin’, xanthan gum is a substance abuse problem worldwide!)

We will definitely try carbomer along with Dermacryl 79 & revert the result here soon. Our experience with Dermacryl 79 is that we need to use half wt/wt of TEA wherease when using carbomer the same TEA required is one fifth wt/wt of carbomer. 

For example - When using Dermacryl 79 1 kg, we need 500gm of TEA to neutralize. However, while using 1kg of carbomer 980, we need 200 gm of TEA. How would we neutralize when both Dermacryl & carbomer are put in one aqueous solution? 

In our experience, we can modulate viscosity of Xanthan Gum by adding or subtracting water, but carbomer once neutralized we find it difficult to modulate to desired viscosity.  

[Devesh327]

Fekher said:

@Devesh327  i guess for your goal we can play with things  

 Reduce ingredients (castor oil, carnauba wax) which cause glossy effect  69% as average in your formulation then it is soo logical to have glossy effect. 
  Then the idea of @grapefruit22 is good by adding clay for more matt finish. 

Sure, I’ll add clay & revert here with the results soon. Also if you can, please tell me what i can replace the castor oil with ? Thank you. 

[Devesh327]

grapefruit22 said:

I have no clue about lipstick formulation, so you can ignore my comment, but isn’t castor oil a little shiny on its own? Matte lipsticks have usually dimethicone as a base. You can try with addition of clay (kaolin, stearalkonium bentonite).

I forgot to mention that we work in affordable beauty sector in class C & D markets. Dimethicone is very expensive if used as a base. Thank you for your suggestions. I will try adding some clay to the formulation & revert back here. I have in the past used dimethicone in my formulation. Dimethicone does mattify the system, but it reduces payoff in the process, making the stick harder. 

[Devesh327]

Perry said:

I’m not sure I understand the reason for the question. Why isn’t the polyacylate being used as the thixotropic agent? 

But between xanthan gum and cellulose, both could work but I think you’ll find cellulose easier to work with

The polyacrylate used in this formula is Dermacryl 79 of Nouryon. It imparts only film forming properties being of higher molecular weight acrylic copolymer. It imparts no thixotropic properties. Would you suggest Carbomer of any grade or any other agent. 

The reason for using a thixotropic agent is that we need product with same consistency to withstand temperature variations, transport stress & longer shelf life. 

[Devesh327]

I think Novethix L-10 polymer made by Lubrizol can help you achieve the desired thickness in your product. Although i don’t know much about balancing the pH like others have spoken about. I do know pH 14 is high, for any soap. 

[Devesh327]

I have tried multiple chinese pH meters & dozens of pen pH meters from Amazon. However, I got tired of wrong readings & hence invested in the basic Milwaukee Mi 151 meter (pH,ORP & Temperature). It is a reliable product & is also light on pocket compared to others. I’m sharing the link of its specifications, Hope this helps you ! 

https://www.gerdus.lt/ph-meters?limit=75&product_id=83 

[Devesh327]

Herbnerd said:

Devesh327 said:

Thank you Herbnerd. I have studied Menthyl Lactate, However, It is almost Rs.8500 per Kilo which is very expensive. I need a cheaper compound. 

Not sure what you want to pay but check https://dir.indiamart.com/impcat/menthyl-lactate.html

You might find something in your price range.

Paprik said:

Have you thought about Camphor? 

Also, I think you can still incorporate some menthol into your formula. Slightly heat the water with the crystals and gel after. This should stabilize this small input.

I have found a cheap alternative to both ingredients suggested by you & I’d like to share it here. I made 20% Menthol solution with Polysorbate 20 (Tween 20). I dissolved 20gm of turpentless menthol crystals in 80gm Polysorbate 20.

I have had to increase the Watermelon fragrance to suppress the menthol’s smell. But the gel feels cool after application and stays crystal clear. 

- Dev 

[Devesh327]

As said at outset, I am a beginner in surfactant chemistry. I’m immensely obliged by knowledge Gurus like @ketchito & @chemicalmatt for your guidance & valuable suggestions. I shall implement all suggestions given here in Toto and shall come back to you with outcomes. Lucky to have formulators like you around. Thank you !