[David]

Thanks Perry.

[David]

I agree with the article but I think cost reducing should be done with care. Of course only a few notice a small fragrance difference, but even 1 out of 15 means 10000 out of 150000 and that could mean 6,7 % loss in sales…

[David]

1. calculate the  HLB

2. choose the correct emulsifier

3. Make a sample without “MSM, GABA, pro vit B5, hyaluronic acid, niacinamide, hydrolysed proteins (cationic) (1%), beta-glucan (0.5%), etc. ” -it should now be stable

4. Add a preservative

5. Add the ingredients from point 3 one by one and take notes.

[David]

that didn’t work but search on both compounds with google image and you will see there is a difference

[David]

[David]

Disodium Cocoamphodiacetate

[David]

with a formula like that I would even let innospec (supplier of Iselux) do all the work and let them find a suitable fragrance and preservative

[David]

seems you have nowhere to go except changing fragrance and preservative. That’s the main reason I don’t like premixes like Iselux SFS

[David]

luiscuevasii I just added it! however it was laureth-2 I think 

[David]

@ Bobzchemist none of the links work (in europe)

one says it is Hacked By GASTON DIABLO ??

[David]

A long time ago I have used it as a thickener in a shampoo - it works but depends of course on the rest of the formulation

[David]

here… just take a pick

[David]

@David08848 If you have a look at an MSDS you already get a quite good picture of how hazardous a chemical is for humans and environment. The problem is that you need to dig much deeper in order to make a difference. questions like  if I stop using this chemical - what do I replace it with? Even if a chemical is non-hazardous - what is its ecological footprint? Concentration and effectiveness has to be taken into account. Transport, energy used for manufacturing, space, economy, animal experiments …etc etc - but I agree one thing - we have to think more about the consequences of using and producing some chemicals/ingredients and ban at least obvious bad ones - like plastic microbeads

[David]

This made wonder if a patent always is a reliable source - where are the data supporting that it is “remarkably effective”?

[David]

@David08848 one thing we know for sure - without chemicals nor we or the earth would exist!

[David]

I would like to see long term research (10-20 years) on using skin care cosmetics vs not using any at all. (sun protection excluded)

[David]

I don’t know of any emulsifier that has any benefit for the skin - except for maybe cleaning it. Their job is to make an emulsion and as little and as mild types as possible should be used - my intuition - not something I can backup with literature though.

[David]

google translate : after reflection  i think you should change balls??

[David]

could also be the quality or age of your TEA - however I agree with what is said above - too much and use AMP or NaOH instead

[David]

@ Bill_Toge 

I think the 2% came from here:

Final report of the safety assessment of hyaluronic acid, potassium hyaluronate, and sodium hyaluronate.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19636067

But as bill said - there is no restriction  in the EU

[David]

it is ok i guess although there are better and cheaper formulas (my opinion)

Regarding stability hlb is not a natural law just an empirical way of making a qualified guess - you will have put your samples on stability anyway. I think Perry has a page here somewhere on how to do it.

[David]

@ Belassi thanks! could be useful

[David]

I have seen this before and the only reason I could think of except what Bobzchemist mentioned is to solubilize the perfume which could have a water soluble ingredients.

[David]

It is almost impossible to get control over a formula with 9(?!) surfactants. Even if you would eventually get it right by trial and error - it is risky - in production next batch could go wrong again, and you will have no solution. And as Belassi says: after 2 years experimenting you start to get an idea of how things work. I would recommend to send the prototype to a consultant OR work with a supplier of surfactants and let them give you a start formulation and some tips.

[David]

thanks Bobzchemist for a professional answer - i think it is hard to get the info on the exact wavelengths those papers absorb - however it may still be a cheaper alternative to a spectrophotometer.