chemicalmatt
Forum Replies Created
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I have to add here: when I was a teenager I was ridiculed for washing my hair with a bar of soap. My sister schooled me on this: “never heard of shampoo before, idiot brother mine?” Now we have come full circle to being “influenced” to use a solid state shampoo, which is chemically equivalent to that bar of soap whether syndet or saponified. Next up: bell-bottom pants and Nehru jackets for the lads. ????
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It is the required HLB, correct. For stearyl palmitate the required HLB = 10. The required HLB values calculated for fatty esters and other builders is somewhat nebulous and to be taken as approximate.
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$300 per kg!! That is scam-worthy. Lecithin graded high in phophatidylcholine runs less than $10.00 per kg. and that is the “liposomer” material of choice. Liposome formation is all in the technique, not the materials. Same holds true for niosomes, which use polyglyceryl esters in place of phospho-esters and sometimes a smidge of cholesterol. Don’t ask me why or how cholesterol fits into the picture. Beats me, but perhaps used as a processing aid.
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<div>@Herbnerd the gold standard for paste mixing has always been the Day-Nauta mixer equipped with a vacuum pump much like your machine. Hosokawa supplies them now, though used Day-Nauta mixers can be found on the aftermarket.</div>
The original Nauta® mixer | Hosokawa Micron (hosokawa-micron-bv.com)
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Not sure which supplier was informing you @kivangel but they were WRONG. Dimethyl isosorbide works with lipids (oils) especially, not so much with water-soluble molecules. There are many penetration enhancers for those, but not many oil penetrants safe to use in topical formulae. DMI stands out, perhaps this explains why it has been historically more expensive than the molecule structure suggests.
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Sodium dodecylbenzenesulfonate, sodium xylene sulfonate, sodium dioctyl sulfosucccinate (aka “DOSS”) and virtually any metal alkyl phosphate surfactant. The higher the pH the greater their solubility and lower their Krafft Number.
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Formulation details aside…help me understand: what exactly is the intended purpose or outcome of applying magnesium chloride topically to humans?
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I would cut all that oil and butter down by at least half and add Polyquaternium-7 at 2 - 5%. Problem solved. Wet comb, dry comb, all comb.
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@sandra-burnett there are too many issues here to address in one post, perhaps try Plan B and start over taking this one at a time. Just for starters: Way too high solids in there. Which guar? Where’s the builder? What’s with all the oils? Why use glycerin?
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@Benyamin be advised all of these so-called keratin straighteners were based on formaldehyde generation, not the keratin itself. The Brazilian thing was a short-lived scam, in my opinion. Stating the obvious here: why not try alkaline hair relaxers like sodium or guanidine hydroxide systems if the carboxylol acid products don’t meet your needs?
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Ditto that. I’ve been using Brontide for over a year. No worries. 100% replacement for BG plus same chemistry: 1,3, butanediol. My longstanding mantra is other than freeze point depression anything PG can do BG can do better, only at 2 - 3X the cost per kg.
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Hypochlorite can pit stainless steel on standing, so take this under consideration. Otherwise, if HDPE, fiberglass, other material is in place, no problem. Now it will reduce to all water given enough time standing, wherein you have standing water inside your tank. Not good, right?
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I sure recommend using hydroxysultaine in place of CAPB, works just the same or better and comes in a 50% active state instead of 30% - a good move there. Although there is not nearly enough research on coacervation my opinion, despite the works of Robert Lochhead and the late Des Goddard, you can bank on salt reducing deposition of cationic guar or Polyquaternum-10 or dimethicone. The ratio of anionic to amphoteric is important also, closer to 1:1 solids for these shampoos. Nobody has repeated these experiments on dilution-deposition with glucosides, glutamates, glycolipids, and all the other shiny new saccharide-based surfactants. What a shame. Perhaps you or I will someday get time to do so. Cheers.
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@NasirAhmedRubel better than that is rice starch. Less expensive too.
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Yes, it is an oil @NasirAhmedRubel and you may substitute very low viscosity mineral oil (70 wt or less) if you are unable to get hold of esters such as isopropyl myristate, octyl palmitate or others.
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@Abdullah Hi there. This chart may be misleading, the actual coacervate complex is from the combination of anionic to amphoteric, or SLES-2 to sodium cocoamphoacetate. They show the glucoside as boosting that deposition (and it is amodimethicone/guar HPTC, not dimethicone, another misleading factor!), I can offer that is because glucosides make the whole damn formula more hydrophobic. Another bit of malfeasance: why add NaCl into this? Salt lowers the dilution-deposition threshold so that most of the conditioner materials will rinse away, not deposit. There is always at least 5.0% free NaCl in sodium cocoamphacetate and CAPB, CAHS so factor that into your formula. This is why we always used the salt-free Gemini amphos such as disodium cocoamphoacetate for conditioning shampoos. To answer your question: 2:1 ratio of anionic : amphoteric solids and add the least amount of salt you can manage. As for glucoside, I cannot see more than 2.0% added here. They are just trying to sell more glucoside.
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@kivangel as someone who worked in contract manufacturing for over 35 years, all in Chicagoland, I can say you are asking for a lot of parameters for a low MOQ house. Do you mean OTC-drug registered establishment when you state “FDA registered”? That cuts out a LOT of CM. Also, certification for ISO16128 by SGS or another agency is an expense most CM will not abide unless their client (or their own brand) requires retail acceptance through WERCS. Honestly, I cannot believe Mana, Apex, Bell, or others of that size and stature would even commit to 20,000 MOQ. Lower your limitations and I’m sure you will find a good CM that can perform capably at the 4000 - 5000 unit level. As for MOQ of 2000? I cannot say. Others may weigh in here.
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@Pharma is right on point there. Alkali are strongly keratolytic whereas acids are weakly keratolytic, excepting that nasty sulfuric acid mentioned. Fun “don’t try this at home” story. I once did a demo for the ACS for some high school kids, trying to peak their interest in STEM. I placed a copper penny into a small beaker of HCl 36% and they watched it fume and dissolve. Then I placed drops of the same acid onto my bare hand (HCl is non-keratolytic) while they gaped in awe. “See kids, I am Superman, even acid doesn’t hurt me.” Now, had I an open cut on that hand at the time, my painful cry would have been even funnier. Hemoglobin is an iron complex, reacts with HCl big-time. ????
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@ML3000 You may have better luck finding PEG-8 Stearate, virtually the same nonionic emulsifier, or try the glyceryl ester analog Polyglcyeryl-4 Stearate. As for cetyl ricinoleate, that is a builder not an emulsifier, so how about using the more common cetyl palmitate?
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@Formulator If anything chlorphenesin will be better in the mild alkaline range (pH 7 - 9), so your project is ideal.
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Dr. Phil gave you the Big Picture there, so I can distill down to the little picture. Look at the CFR file [2016-15410, pp 42918] which is still valid today. Use the monograph limits for ethanol or isopropanol or BKZ, although ethanol is the most effective, least expensive, easiest to work with and most consumer acceptable active to use. BKZ has issues with P. aeruginosa (and @PhilGeis might correct me on that one) resistance, whereas the alcohols do not. Our company is the originator of Rapidgel EZ1, the drop-in alcohol thickener, for which sales went crazy when hand sanitizers sales did same, so we have a LOT of research on this. My beef with the TFM - and I always smile at that oxymoron - is their dismissal of chloroxylenol (PCMX), although it is still allowed in washes/ liquid soaps. PCMX has been safely in use since the 1920’s, has been proven not to be a contributor to MIRSA, is 60X more effective than phenol…I could go on. Triclosan, triclocarban, hexachlorophene and all the others (including dioxin!) have come and gone with dishonor, but PCMX maintains its rightful place in antiseptic formulation.
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Mark, Is this where the Great Smiley Octopus dwells capturing the carbon emitted from Gwyneth Paltrow’s GOOP cruises? Must be.
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@Benyamin Both of these will “burn” hair when your cream base containing them is left on longer than 25 minutes, though the popular term is “shedding.” Scalp will burn even sooner. The alkali cream hair relaxers have been working their lanthionizing chemistry for nearly 60 years, first in the salon then in the retail storefront, where the safer 2-part guanidine system held place. The black hair care community has trended away from them now, for reasons of safety and cultural awareness. Safety first and wisely so, I guess. I’ve had to give depositions for product liability lawsuits three times over course of my career, and two of these were for alkaline no-base hair relaxer products.
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Likely carbon steel, which is even more susceptible to corrosion from oxidizers. For a brief 30 minutes sanitizing cycle though, no problem.
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Always grateful to @Graillotion for keeping me updated on these things - thanks again, pal: my lifespan has been duly lengthened. Now, @Isabel thank you for giving me the skinny ’cause I’ve seen these “magnesium oil” products in the market and trade press. Knowing the topical analgesia angle, isn’t magnesium sulfate (Epsom Salt) actively doing the exact same thing, albeit without the trendiness? Asking for a friend.