[Paprik]

raiyana said:

I dont make lipsticks, but i do make diy cleansing balms and cleansing oil for my friends and family. Water free formula.

I used to have issues like this but now my cleansing balms dont go rancid as fast. The one i made 2 years ago still smell okay.

What i did, i changed most of my plant oils to synthetic ingredients. The products mostly made of:
Caprylic capric triglyceride
Mineral oil
C12-15 Alkyl benzoate
Isododecane
Some sunflower oil and castor oil
Other plant oils (i limit to 1% max)
BHT as antioxadant at 0.1%
Fragrance and essential oils (max 0.05%)
For natural wax, i only use white beeswax

I dont use preservatives as long as the product is kept away from water and stored properly (not in the bathroom!) Never had any mold. But my “clients” are just friends and family and i always remind them to keep the products dry.

Are you having problems with syneresis? Looking at your oils, you’re mixing polar and non-polar lipids? 

[Paprik]

Cinema said:

saraahsan said:

Cinema said:

I am not into lipsticks and all- but just a thought- maybe switch oils / butters to the kind with a longer shelf life maybe or replace aome with eaters- along with all the other maneuvers 

i am adding castor oil plus caprylic capric 

castor oil has a shorter shelf life that most of plant butters- most of them being in the 2 years range as acompared to 1 year for the castor oil- 2 years if hydrogenated- other options are softisan 378 (fantastic for lipsticks) has a shelf life of 3 years and is soft solid at room temp

What do you mean by “shelf life”? Before going rancid? Actually Castor oil is one of the most stable oils. Together with Jojoba (which is a wax actually) and Coconut oil. It has very good oxidative stability. 

[Paprik]

Hello,

I believe it can. However you need to check regulatory limits. 
If I remember correctly, in EU it’s 0.05% for body products and 0.1% (or 0.3%) for hands, face and rinse off products. 
Talking about Retinol, Retinyl Acetate abd Retinyl Palmitate.

[Paprik]

For me a). Micelles are formed in the finished product. 

[The shape of the micelle depends on the size of the head (and the tail type). (Spherical, cylindrical, etd … )]

[Paprik]

How much of the Tocopherol are using? And what type? 
I believe it’s a hot fill/pour, which will already oxidase some of the vit E, so you need to increase the input. 

Please share the formula so we can take a look properly. 

[Paprik]

Abdullah said:

@Paprik the gum doesn’t mix correctly in surfactant solutions as i have experienced. 

Do you slurry the gum prior to adding it into the surfactant solution?

[Paprik]

You should be hydrating your gum with all available water from the formula, otherwise you’re risking separating. Meaning, if you hydrate the guar gum with water and add surfactants (which also contain water) after, the water won’t necessary combine with the already hydrated guar gum. 
So you should combine all surfactants, add water, mix it and add your gum afterwards. So the gum has all the water and can thicken the whole phase. 

[Paprik]

Hi, 

could you maybe share a method? I have no experience with this one, but looking at a sample recipe from MakingCosmetics, they used 4% for 12% lipid and also thickener 3%. I don’t think HEC is giving a stringy texture (especially at 0.5%), or at least I don’t recall it from my experiments with it. 

Also one more thing, in my opinion, the Essential oils input is too high. If it’s a body lotion, stick to 1.5% maximum, for face 0.5%. Also check regulatory limits for individual oils. 

[Paprik]

In my opinion, it’s just easier to control the input and if it’s 50% solution, it’s easier to mix it thru.
In other words, you would need to wait for the powder to dissolve and mix thru properly and a bit of it could make a big change in pH.
Adding drop by drop gives you more control. 

Maybe someone will have more science-like answer

[Paprik]

Hello,

I would use Liquid Germall Plus as a preservative. It’s effective from pH 3 - 8, so if you would land on 3.5 after adding LAA you should be fine even if it moves over time.. 

In my opinion, you have a little bit too much Vit E. To solubilize 1% properly, you would probably need much more of Polysorbate 80. 
Even if you add Vit E and Ferulic Acid, the serum won’t last ages. You’ll get maybe a month more? I mean, if you will make 30 grams batches, for me there’s not point of adding those ingredients. Stick with water, humectant, LAA, gelling agent (HA is great), chelating agent and preservative. My serum lasts around a month before turning pale yellow. I’m usually done with it by then anyway. 
And my customers are buying my LAA serum maybe every 1.5 - 2 months. 
(I put a warning on the packaging regarding oxidation and expiration date).

Hope that helps.  

[Paprik]

Can you share the method? 

(Have you neutralized the HEC? What is the final pH?)

[Paprik]

Hey,

this cream looks alright, not sure why you want to add so many actives?
CoQ10 is already there, HA, B5, Vit E acetate (antioxidant for your skin) …
I mean, if you add 0.025% or even 0.5% (which I think you could, if you were using tretinoin for that long), I think you should be fine, preservation-wise. Not sure about compatibility with other ingredients. You would have to do some testing. 

Sometimes less it more. Or make batches and use some actives in the morning and some at night.

This cream is using Euxyl 9010 as one of the preservation. You could calculate how much you dilute it and top up maybe? 1% limit. 
Not promising it will work tho. 

Good luck! 

PS. Send me some tretinoin  

[Paprik]

jemolian said:

Speaking about cooking, this kills me

Comments from the natural FB groups always does, so…

Oh **** This cracked me up !!!  
Pinch of EDTA Ninicidmide Omg I caaan’t  

[Paprik]

EVchem said:

Xanthan does not have great sensorial but if you are going to keep it you can always try adding it before surfactants go in. Sometimes I wonder if the gum doesn’t hydrate properly when surfactants are already in the water

I would not recommend this. XG needs all the available water to hydrate. If you gonna hydrate it only with water from “water phase” and not with the water from surfactants, this can and probably will cause separation. 

[Paprik]

Not sure if this is gonna help, but I’m using Montanov 202 and it provides matte finish. Love this, coz of my combination skin. 

Other than that, I’m thinking about adding some type of powder to reduce the glossiness? 

[Looking forward to see other’s suggestions on this one ]

[Paprik]

Hi,

looking at your formula, I think you need to reduce low melting point ingredients. Lauryl Laurate - melting point 23-30°C. + Shea and Mango butter. In total, you have 25% of those. Keep those under 10%, to give your product good climate stability. 

I think what you are experiencing is called “Syneresis”. Please check polarity of those waxes. And the oils. Mixing non-polar and polar ingredients usually results in this issue.

Hope that helps  

[Paprik]

It’s really hard to say. Could you share the cream you will be adding those to? The ingredient list, so we can see what’s inside and what they used as pa reservative. 

Where did you get the tretinoin, if I may ask? I’m almost jealous, haha. 
0.025% seems fine for the starts. 2 - 3 times a week and see how you tolerate it. And SUNSCREEN! Otherwise what’s the point, right?  

[Paprik]

@ngarayeva001, yes, you are right! I didn’t even go thru all the list properly.

I’m not even sure, where did he get this ingredient. I’m using Retrieve, which is prescription cream, with 0.05% of Tretinoin. 

[Paprik]

Hi,
so you’re saying you bought a facial cream from a store and you want to add some ingredients in it? 
I would not advise that, especially in this quantity. Imagine, the company creates a preservation system that protects the product for 2 - 3 years. But they usually don’t over-preserve it, to keep the potential irritancy low. If you add some of those actives, it’s basically food source for microorganism. And you are diluting the preservative. This will most likely end up in microorganism grow. 

Hope that makes a bit sense?  

[Paprik]

kot said:

Paprik said:

Hi,
I think it’s just going to add slip into that formula once applied to the skin with water.

Hi, but there is Sodium Lauroyl Glutamate, isn’t it slippery when wet?

Hey, sorry, I did not work with this material yet. It probably is, the XG should maybe only enhance it? Just my guess

[Paprik]

Hi,
I think it’s just going to add slip into that formula once applied to the skin with water.

[Paprik]

Hi, 

HEC needs to be hydrated with ALL water available from the formula. 
So, if you will add that to a water and add surfactants after, most of surfactants also contain water, which won’t be available for the HEC.

So, proper method is:
Add water and all surfactants together.
-If you have any essential oil or lipid (which is not recommended, maximum 1% and it’s just for marketing), you need to solubilise it first and add to surfactants phase. 
Once everything is mixed, you can add your HEC. This way, all the available water will be there and HEC will grab all of it. Disperse properly.
Alkalize it to pH > 7, let it “swell”, once ready, you can adjust pH to desired/requested value. 

Hope that helps.

[Paprik]

For a creamy face wash that will foam, prepare a nice thick stable emulsion (use high inputs, excess if you will, of high HLB non-ionic emulsifier), use minimum amount of oils (keep it under 3% mostly for marketing) and swap some water with cocamidopropyl betaine. 

Hope this helps.

[Paprik]

If I can add .. what’s the final pH? 
Keep it around 3.5 for best results.
How fast does it turn pale yellow [in days]?

I keep my serum in bathroom and am making a new one every 2 - 3 weeks. Going to fridge for it everytime would be super annoying.  

Also, in my opinion, you don’t have enough solubiliser. You have 1% Polysorbate 80 for 1% Tocopherol. Although, I’ve never worked with that material, so can’t tell for sure. 
Method is crucial, do you solubilize the Toco properly before adding into water? Does it go clear before each adding? 

And curiosity question: Do you like it with the Xanthan Gum? I’m thickening it up with a bit of HA to get the slip. Probably depending on what grade of XG you’re using, but it may feel sticky? 

[Paprik]

Hello,

you would need to include your formula, so we can see what could go wrong.
Carbomers are usually electrolyte sensitive, so if you tried to thicken the product with salt (due to SLES) it could be the cause. 
As amitvedakar mentioned, Sepimax zen is electrolyte resistant, so this could help you. 

Let us know! Hope this helps