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DIY Vitamin C Serum
I am planning to make a DIY Vitamin C Solution (pH 3-ish) for a week or so of use.
Formula:
Water
Sodium lactate — 2%
L-ascorbic acid — 15%
Propylene glycol — 7%
Ferulic acid — 0.5%
Tocopherol — 1%
Polysorbate 80 — 1%
Hyaluronic acid — 0.1%
Disodium EDTA — 0.2%
Sodium benzoate — 0.5%
Potassium sorbate — 0.2%
Triethanolamine (if needed)What are your comments on it? Any changes that you would suggest?
How effective is the preservation system? (I will pre-make the solution and store it for a few months and only add ascorbic acid to small amounts of it every week, AFTER the formula as a whole has been successful and I know exactly how much to add of what ingredient each time.)
How do you think the formula will come about in terms of its efficacy?
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22 Replies
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@Perry @Pharma @MarBroussard @PhilGeis @ngarayeva001 @Microformulation @EVchem @”Dr Catherine Pratt” @Paprik @abierose @Graillotion @RedCoast @jemolian @ozgirl
Could any of you help here, please?
(Sorry for too many tags! Please ignore if not interested.)
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Potentially it’s possible to make a pre-made solution then add the LAA later, but you’d need to make sure that the 15% LAA added would reach the pH range that you want. You will need to try out different percentages of TEA at different pH range. This would be the logical way to do it.
A few things: one of them being that the Tocopherol might not be fully solubilized with the Polysorbate for stability, which is something you need to observe. Another being that the ingredients would very likely not be in effective range in the pre-made solution, especially the preservatives. One more thing, i’d assume that the sodium lactate be mildly exfoliating at the pH 3+ range.
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Why dont you use MAP or SAP vitamin C?, DSM (Brennetag) make a great stable Vitamin C called Stay-C 50. You can get that from small suppliers.Why not use a gelling agent like Seppimax ? or Leci gel? you only need a small amount along with the Hyal acid. You will want to think about whether you want various MW of Hyal acid too. As different MW’s gel better than others!!The preservatives are fine but I would use more of each.If you don’t use a gelling agent as I have suggested you may want a cold process emulsifier like Eumulgin 1%.Work on that and let me know how you go!!! Good luck cheers Catherine
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jemolian said:Potentially it’s possible to make a pre-made solution then add the LAA later, but you’d need to make sure that the 15% LAA added would reach the pH range that you want. You will need to try out different percentages of TEA at different pH range. This would be the logical way to do it.
A few things: one of them being that the Tocopherol might not be fully solubilized with the Polysorbate for stability, which is something you need to observe. Another being that the ingredients would very likely not be in effective range in the pre-made solution, especially the preservatives. One more thing, i’d assume that the sodium lactate be mildly exfoliating at the pH 3+ range.
Thank you for sharing your insights!
I didn’t quite get the following statement of yours, though.
Another being that the ingredients would very likely not be in effective range in the pre-made solution, especially the preservatives.Could you please elaborate on it, please? Which ingredients would not be in ‘effective range’, and effective in what terms? I am planning to keep the pH of the solution near to 3 (after L-ascorbic acid is added, that is).
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Dr Catherine Pratt said:Why dont you use MAP or SAP vitamin C?, DSM (Brennetag) make a great stable Vitamin C called Stay-C 50. You can get that from small suppliers.Why not use a gelling agent like Seppimax ? or Leci gel? you only need a small amount along with the Hyal acid. You will want to think about whether you want various MW of Hyal acid too. As different MW’s gel better than others!!The preservatives are fine but I would use more of each.If you don’t use a gelling agent as I have suggested you may want a cold process emulsifier like Eumulgin 1%.Work on that and let me know how you go!!! Good luck cheers Catherine
Thank you for your response!
I want to avoid vitamin C derivates and stick to the ‘pure’ form of vitamin C.
Gelling is not an issue for me. Would that affect the efficacy of the product?
I will push sodium benzoate to 1% and keep potassium sorbate at 0.2% (since that is its upper limit). Works?
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Could you please elaborate on it, please? Which ingredients would not be in ‘effective range’, and effective in what terms? I am planning to keep the pH of the solution near to 3 (after L-ascorbic acid is added, that is).
What would be out of the pH range would be determined by the pH of your premade solution, which you have to make first. It’s not something that i can really give you an answer to. For example, your premade solution make require it to by pH 8 before adding the LAA, which the preservatives would no longer be effective if you intend to store it.
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jemolian said:Could you please elaborate on it, please? Which ingredients would not be in ‘effective range’, and effective in what terms? I am planning to keep the pH of the solution near to 3 (after L-ascorbic acid is added, that is).
What would be out of the pH range would be determined by the pH of your premade solution, which you have to make first. It’s not something that i can really give you an answer to. For example, your premade solution make require it to by pH 8 before adding the LAA, which the preservatives would no longer be effective if you intend to store it.
Makes sense - thank you!
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jemolian said:Could you please elaborate on it, please? Which ingredients would not be in ‘effective range’, and effective in what terms? I am planning to keep the pH of the solution near to 3 (after L-ascorbic acid is added, that is).
What would be out of the pH range would be determined by the pH of your premade solution, which you have to make first. It’s not something that i can really give you an answer to. For example, your premade solution make require it to by pH 8 before adding the LAA, which the preservatives would no longer be effective if you intend to store it.
How about I use a mixture of DMDM (0.5%) and methylparaben (0.2%) and add 0.2% disodium EDTA?
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ifamuj said:
How about I use a mixture of DMDM (0.5%) and methylparaben (0.2%) and add 0.2% disodium EDTA?
That would be good but cut down on levels 2000 ppm DMDMH/1000 Methyl parabens/1000 Na2EDTA. What is the packaging and how do you plan to limit use to 3 months?
Premade solution? You will need to preserve premixes - if they exist for > 6 hours. -
Greetings!
Looks like SkinCeuticals has a very similar product, using the following ingredients from INCIdecoder:Aqua/Water/Eau, Ethoxydiglycol, Ascorbic Acid, Glycerin, Propylene Glycol, Laureth-23, Phenoxyethanol, Tocopherol, Triethanolamine, Ferulic Acid, Panthenol, Sodium HyaluronateI believe I’ve used this product before and I do remember it being somewhat effective but it spoiled before I got to use it all, which was about 2 months. In fact, I’ve tried a few other vitamin C serums in the past that just spoiled very quickly it was not worth the money 🤷♀️ -
What specifically are you trying to accomplish by adding small amounts of LAA later? Are you also trying to save on containers? If so, this wouldn’t be worth the trouble. Adding more LAA over time will increase the risk of crystallization, and you could potentially compromise the formula.Also, having different batches/test serums in their own containers can help you figure out faster (and more accurately) what went wrong during the process.
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Hello,
I would use Liquid Germall Plus as a preservative. It’s effective from pH 3 - 8, so if you would land on 3.5 after adding LAA you should be fine even if it moves over time..
In my opinion, you have a little bit too much Vit E. To solubilize 1% properly, you would probably need much more of Polysorbate 80.
Even if you add Vit E and Ferulic Acid, the serum won’t last ages. You’ll get maybe a month more? I mean, if you will make 30 grams batches, for me there’s not point of adding those ingredients. Stick with water, humectant, LAA, gelling agent (HA is great), chelating agent and preservative. My serum lasts around a month before turning pale yellow. I’m usually done with it by then anyway.
And my customers are buying my LAA serum maybe every 1.5 - 2 months.
(I put a warning on the packaging regarding oxidation and expiration date).Hope that helps.
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Hi, I suggest that you keep it like in L’Oreal’s patent (which is ok as long as you are not selling it)
https://patents.google.com/patent/US7179841B2/enIt translates into this:
INCI % Aqua 34.00% Ethoxydiglycol 30.00% Propylene
glycol10.00% Glycerin 5.00% Ferulic Acid 0.50% LAA 15.00% Tocopherol 1.00% Ceteareth-20 4.00% Hyaluronic
acid HMW0.20% TEA qs It still oxidizes with time, but slower than other options. You don’t need a preservative with this one.
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ngarayeva001 said:Hi, I suggest that you keep it like in L’Oreal’s patent (which is ok as long as you are not selling it)
https://patents.google.com/patent/US7179841B2/enIt translates into this:
INCI % Aqua 34.00% Ethoxydiglycol 30.00% Propylene
glycol10.00% Glycerin 5.00% Ferulic Acid 0.50% LAA 15.00% Tocopherol 1.00% Ceteareth-20 4.00% Hyaluronic
acid HMW0.20% TEA qs It still oxidizes with time, but slower than other options. You don’t need a preservative with this one.
What is the purpose of ceteareth-20 here?
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ifamuj said:ngarayeva001 said:Hi, I suggest that you keep it like in L’Oreal’s patent (which is ok as long as you are not selling it)
https://patents.google.com/patent/US7179841B2/enIt translates into this:
INCI % Aqua 34.00% Ethoxydiglycol 30.00% Propylene
glycol10.00% Glycerin 5.00% Ferulic Acid 0.50% LAA 15.00% Tocopherol 1.00% Ceteareth-20 4.00% Hyaluronic
acid HMW0.20% TEA qs It still oxidizes with time, but slower than other options. You don’t need a preservative with this one.
What is the purpose of ceteareth-20 here?
Ceteareth 20 is a solubilizer/emulsifier, it would take the place of Polysorbate.
I don’t recommend making a base formula and adding Ascorbic Acid over time. That just sounds like a huge hassle, and like others have pointed out, you would need to pH test every time and adjust. Or your base formula would have to have a quite high pH, so you would have to use a preservative that is effective at such an alkaline pH. I recommend Liquid Germall Plus.
If you do decide to go this route, you really don’t need the Vitamin E or Ferulic Acid, because their function is to extend the shelf life of Ascorbic Acid.
I use Timeless Vitamin C & E & Ferulic and I would recommend looking into the formulation as it is EXTREMELY stable. Like, unbelievably stable. Lasts 3+ months easily without any outward signs of oxidization.
They achieve this level of stability by significantly reducing the water content and using glycols in place of water.
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They use Laureth-23 in the patent. I didn’t have it and Ceteareth-20 works fine anyway. You would need too much polysorbate 20 to solubilise 1% of tocopherol.
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Is there anything I can substitute Ethoxydiglycol with? I live in Canada and you can’t find it anywhere.
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SuMorBla said:Is there anything I can substitute Ethoxydiglycol with? I live in Canada and you can’t find it anywhere.
L’Oréal is also using dipropylene glycol and ethanol in their vitamin C serums (Lancôme, Vichy, SkinCeuticals), so that could work.
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try adding sodium metabisulphite (around 0.5%) as an anti-oxidant, and benzophenone-4 (0.2-1%) as a water-soluble radical trap (minimises the amount of oxygen available to degrade the ascorbic acid) -
@SuMorBla, I don’t recommend replacing ethoxydiglycol. It’s sold in the US. In theory you can replace it with propylene glycol but the serum will be less aesthetically pleasing.
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what should the pH be of the final product. Would it be clear or hazy?
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what is ethoxydiglycol used for?
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