ngarayeva001
Forum Replies Created
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I would step back and challenge whether it’s a humectant that you need. Surfactants are supposed to clean, they don’t moisturise. No humectant would do anything noticeable in a wash off product. Probably what you need is to reassess what makes your product drying. Without knowing anything about the formula it’s either wrong combination or surfactants, or too much of surfactants or, you just need some cationic materials to add slip.
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Phenonip and germall plus (depends on the product)
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Ok, you have an o/w emulsion with relatively high oil phase of 45%. It might be separating because your emulsifier can’t hold that much. You might want to try Arlacel 165 (GMS+PEG-100 stearate) at 7% and I would still add a little of ceteareth-20. I don’t recommend increasing emulsifiers above 7% because it will be hard to control soaping. In my own anecdotal experience arlacel 165 can hold 40% of oil. But so does TEA-stearate, cold creams usually include 40% or more of mineral oil. Add dimethicone to reduce soaping and waterphase stabiliser as was advised above (xanthan or carbomer). I am only referring to emulsifiers that I tried in products with high oil phase. I am sure there are others. I can guess ceteareth-20 would do a better job mixed with GMS not cetearyl alcohol. Another way of increasing stability is to add a little bit of anionic emulsifiers (maybe that’s the reason TEA stearate works with high oil phase). I don’t understand details of the mechanism but know this through experience and several chemists here mentioned it too. To summarise, there are several ways to save your product: completely change emulsifier, keep as it but add a small amount of TEA and stearic acid/or GMS SE (anionic one), add xanthan/carbomer, add dimethicone to control soaping.
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What is wrong with this product except for soaping? And why you want it to be w/o?
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This is the first time I’ve heard that butylene glycol is toxic and banned. Do you have links/references?
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This product has a high amount of aluminum chlorohydrate https://www.vichy.co.uk/en_GB/cream-7-day-anti-perspirant-deodorant/VICUK-082.html?dwvar_VICUK-082_size=30ml#tab=Tabs_fb1rfrf2d3l_control_2
INGREDIENTS: AQUA / WATER • ALUMINUM CHLOROHYDRATE • ALUMINUM SESQUICHLOROHYDRATE • CETYL ALCOHOL • PEG-100 STEARATE • GLYCERYL STEARATE • SORBITOL • DIMETHICONE • PARFUM / FRAGRANCE • BENZYL ALCOHOL • IODOPROPYNYL BUTYLCARBAMATE (F.I.L. C26796/2).
Arlacel 165 seems to be an answer to most questions. -
Resveratrol is an antioxidant and is prone to oxidation. It can change colour of the product when it oxidises itself. I noticed it in one of the products I made a while but I can’t tell when it happened. The moisturizer was over a year and the resveratrol powder I used in it also changed its colour. Ubiquinone is the same btw.
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Amino acids act as film formers though. Maybe the do add benefits for that reason? Although I stopped using them as it’s a presentation challenge.
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I highly recommend reducing oil phase to 17-18% if you want to avoid adding high melting point wax. Look at Evonik’s formulas, the only one with high oil phase has like 3% of high melting point waxes. That kills the texture completely (although it’s obviously makes it more stable). 1.5-2% Abil EM90, 0.5-0.75% Isolan GPS, 1-1.5% of either NaCl, or Mg Sulfate or Zn Sulfate (a must! for stability). If you use sodium lactate of Sodium PCA reduce salt to 1% but don’t remove it. Now, if it’s a cold process and you want a lighter gel like texture use Zn Stearate at 0.5-0.7% and something like hydrated silica or silica dimethyl silylate (sold in Italy and Greece) and keep Dimethicone at less than 20%. If its a hot process you can up oils but follow what Evonik suggested in the formula with 40% of oils where they added tons of waxes. It’s going to have long rheology and will be runny. You can try both options and see which you like best. And which one is more stable. W/Si are tricky beasts.
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Vichy uses it in many of their antiperspirants. Have a look what else is there
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Agree with the comments above. Conditioners with only cationic emulsifiers separate.
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I am scared to imagine what pH it has… Post the formula.
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Very low oil phase is 16-20%
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Is it Abil EM90? Check Evonik’s website for information. If yes, it only works with very low oil phase. It also needs another emulsifier, btw isolan gps is a good idea for pairing.
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What kind of oils? Should it stay transparent? Is it a leave-in product?
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You are welcome. I don’t use tea stearate often but I make old fashioned cold cream sometimes and use it as described above. Works pretty well
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@ketchito, thank you! So many useful points!
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Yes, you can mix them. Add cationic polymers too if you want more conditioning (polyquat 10, cationic guars etc).
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Bird eggs incubators are designed to maintain constant temperature. I know for sure as my dad is an engineer and builds them. But as per my understanding for security reasons bird eggs incubators have temperature limitation that is lower than what you might want for stability test.
You might want to have a look at this Mini Lab Incubator - Precise Temperature Control from 0°C to +65°C, 5L Capacity, 12V/220V https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07N7VKGY4/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_sfDMFb2JWZQ71?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1 -
Watersoluble options are Amodimethicone (it’s actually not but it’s usually supplied as an emulsion), PEG-8 Dimethicone and PEG-12 Dimethicone (ethoxylated) and Quaternium-80 (and many others that I haven’t used). It really depends on the product but I noticed that PEG-8 and PEG-12 dimethicone might have a negative effect on viscosity (or I use too much, or I don’t use it the right way). Amodimethicone and Quaternium-80 are more dummy-proof and feel quite nice in shampoos (add slip and conditioning effect: both are cationic which is handy). Now, if you compare something like a serum made with dimethiconol vs a water-based spray with amodimethicone for coarse and thick hair… well I guess the answer is obvious, dimetichonol wins. I guess people with thinner hair might like water-soluble versions as they feel lighter. So, there is no straightforward answer, all silicones are great and all have a place to be, it depends on the product.
I use amodimethicone (or quaternium-80) in my shampoo (plus loads of cationic polymers), plain dimethicone in my wash-off conditioner and a simple blend of dimethiconol in D5 plus some phenyl trimethicone in leave-in serum.
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Not commenting on its skin benefits because papers I saw weren’t persuasive, but I managed to dissolve 4% in plain propylene glycol. It took an hour of stirring using a magnetic stirrer. Didn’t even had to heat it.
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To make surfactants product mild you use more of an amphoteric surfactant (which you already did) and several mild anionic, which you also did. The only thing that I guess could be even milder is solubilisers. But they aren’t great at cleaning.
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It would be hard to make it milder than what you have already. I would reduce guar.
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In what sense? They both are safe.
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It’s not viscosity that distinguishes honey from ketchup it’s elasticity. Ok, compare carbomer (say ultrez 30) and xanthan (any grade), you can bring them to the same viscosity but xanthan will never have flow as short as carbomer. And yes xanthan is more slippery.