Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating Advanced Questions WHAT IS WRONG???

  • WHAT IS WRONG???

    Posted by filiz on November 4, 2020 at 1:29 pm

    Hi, 

    I’m working on a roll-on formulation. I can not dissolve Aluminium Chlorohydrate. ıt’s powder. ı have tried different percentages like 8%, 10%, 20%. I use a mixture as a thickener ( Hydroxyethyl Acrylate / Sodium Acryloyldimethyl Taurate Copolymer , Isohexadecane, Polysorbate 60)
    There is also not enough thickening.

    So, what’s wrong?

    fekher replied 3 years, 3 months ago 7 Members · 18 Replies
  • 18 Replies
  • fekher

    Member
    November 4, 2020 at 2:51 pm

    @filiz take a look for  industrial formulations then try to copy your best industrial product it will be helpful. 

  • filiz

    Member
    November 4, 2020 at 2:57 pm

    Hi @Fekher  Where can you recommend as a source?

  • ngarayeva001

    Member
    November 4, 2020 at 6:40 pm

    Vichy uses it in many of their antiperspirants. Have a look what else is there

  • ozgirl

    Member
    November 4, 2020 at 9:41 pm
    Do you have water in your formula? Aluminium Chlorohydrate is very soluble in water. It is often sold as a 50% solution.
    Here is a starting formula that might be of interest

  • filiz

    Member
    November 5, 2020 at 5:29 am

    Hi @ozgirl 
    below is my formula:

    Aqua
    Cyclopentasiloxane
    Aluminium chlorohydrate
    C12-13 Alkyl Lactat
    Hydroxyethyl Acrylate / Sodium Acryloyldimethyl Taurate Copolymer , Isohexadecane, Polysorbate 60 (Thickener mix)
    TEA

  • filiz

    Member
    November 5, 2020 at 5:56 am

    Hi @ngarayeva001 

    This is the only deodorant active I have right now. I will actively search for a new one after finding out where the problem is caused 🙂

    the point is that I dissolve the thickener in half the formula water. I’m resolving ACH with the other half. After combining the two mixes, I leave it for a long mixing process. White residues remain, which are insoluble and settle to the bottom.
    my formula exists in the above case. Do you have any suggestion for this?

  • mhart123

    Member
    November 5, 2020 at 3:30 pm

    I would say your thickener is not so much a thickener as it is a stabilizer.  In my experience using it, I haven’t seen a huge increase in viscosity when adding it to my formulas but maybe it is just formula dependent? 

  • ozgirl

    Member
    November 5, 2020 at 9:13 pm
    Is your thickener suitable for use with antiperspirants? The example given in the Simugel FL datasheet for electrolyte resistance shows data for 0.4 and 0.6% NaCl. This is significantly lower than 8% to 20% Aluminium Chlorhydrate suggesting that your thickener is the problem.
    It is more likely that the acrylate polymers are crashing out rather than your aluminium chlorohydrate.

  • filiz

    Member
    November 6, 2020 at 5:27 am

    @ozgirl   @mhart123 When I talked to my raw material supplier, she said that the magnetic stirrer is not sufficient for mixing. 
    She said different thickeners wouldn’t work either without high speed mixing.
    Do you think the problem could be entirely due to this??

  • Benz3ne

    Member
    November 6, 2020 at 7:50 am

    filiz said:

    @ozgirl   @mhart123 When I talked to my raw material supplier, she said that the magnetic stirrer is not sufficient for mixing. 
    She said different thickeners wouldn’t work either without high speed mixing.
    Do you think the problem could be entirely due to this??

    Possibly, but you won’t know first-hand until you try it.
    Give it a go with a cheap hand blender/stick blender and see whether it still exhibits the same issues. It might end up foamy for a day so leave it sit and see what results.

  • pattsi

    Member
    November 8, 2020 at 8:22 am

    8%, 10%, 20% Aluminium Chlorohydrate powder - very high electrolyte, you will need a specific emulsifier designed for that job.

    For DIYing a cheap hand blender/stick blender will do.

  • ngarayeva001

    Member
    November 8, 2020 at 8:58 am

    This product has a high amount of aluminum chlorohydrate https://www.vichy.co.uk/en_GB/cream-7-day-anti-perspirant-deodorant/VICUK-082.html?dwvar_VICUK-082_size=30ml#tab=Tabs_fb1rfrf2d3l_control_2

    INGREDIENTS: AQUA / WATER • ALUMINUM CHLOROHYDRATE • ALUMINUM SESQUICHLOROHYDRATE • CETYL ALCOHOL • PEG-100 STEARATE • GLYCERYL STEARATE • SORBITOL • DIMETHICONE • PARFUM / FRAGRANCE • BENZYL ALCOHOL • IODOPROPYNYL BUTYLCARBAMATE (F.I.L. C26796/2).


    Arlacel 165 seems to be an answer to most questions.
  • ozgirl

    Member
    November 9, 2020 at 10:12 pm
    I don’t think that the issue is due to stirring speed but more likely incompatibility of your emulsifier with high electrolyte levels. Did you check with your supplier on this?
    A combination of Steareth-2 and Steareth-20 are often used in antiperspirants. For example this Dove Antiperspirant Roll-On Deodorant Original
    Water, Aluminum Chlorohydrate, Helianthus Annuus (Sunflower) Seed Oil, Glycerin. Steareth-2, Fragrance, Steareth-20, Tocopheryl Acetate.
  • filiz

    Member
    November 10, 2020 at 5:58 am

    @ngarayeva001 

    Thank you for your suggestion. But I think hot process is required for this emulsifier. whereas I have to work cold process.
    I have seen in previous R&D reports that there are no problems when using Hydroxyethylcellulose in formulas with ACH. however, high speed mixing was used. 

    speed of mixing also makes me think. I have to make sure of the emulsifier before requesting a new purchase for the mixer. 

  • filiz

    Member
    November 10, 2020 at 6:04 am

    hi @ozgirl I haven’t received an answer from my supplier yet. When I looked at the SIMULGEL INS100 report it was a serrated disk scrambler procedure.

    I think the combination of Steareth-2 and Steareth-20 is suitable for cold process?

  • fekher

    Member
    November 10, 2020 at 6:13 am

    @filiz for sure for Steareth-2 and Steareth-20 you need to go to hot process cause both are solid emulsifiers which need heating. 

  • filiz

    Member
    November 10, 2020 at 8:44 am

    Hi @Fekher
    Do you have any suggestion of emülsifier suitable for cold process ?

  • fekher

    Member
    November 10, 2020 at 1:15 pm

    I guess @ngarayeva001 can help more about that. Unless take a look for cold process emulsifiers 

Log in to reply.