[ngarayeva001]

Both disodium and tetrasodium dissolve in water if you heat it. I never bother with preparing solutions and use them as recommended by the supplier depending in the formula.

[ngarayeva001]

You don’t need cationic emulsifiers, oils and fatty alcohols. Keep it as a simple SA spray. Increase glycols (add 20% of propylene glycol and up hexanediol) and add a surfactant (1.5% of asm CAPB for example, or 3% of polysorbate 80) to prevent SA from recrystalysing. Increase sodium lactate to 5%. If you want it sprayable, which in my opinion is easier to apply, then ditch HEC. If SA is not effective in a long run, explore climbazole. It’s realatively easy to find in small quantities. I assume it’s for personal use based on stated quantity but I want to remind that climbazole and SA in this capacity are considered drugs from regulatory standpoint.

[ngarayeva001]

Hi there! I am in Richmond. I will message you.

[ngarayeva001]

<div>Helpful links:</div><div>
</div>https://www.personalcaremagazine.com/story/13929/lipstick-formulation-not-as-easy-as-you-might-think<div&gt;
</div><div>https://www.personalcaremagazine.com/story/11016/natural-wax-a-problem-solver-in-lipstick
<div>
</div><div>
</div></div>

personalcaremagazine.com

Lipstick formulation: not as easy as you might think

Long lasting, hydrating, matting, plumping: these are all qualities we read about in lipstick advertisements. With new slogans and the guarantee of unique quality, producers encourage us to buy new products. Oil/wax systems sound simple and uncomplicated, but what exactly … Continue reading

[ngarayeva001]

What type of product are you making (example or benchmark) and what is water content?

[ngarayeva001]

Well stearic acid is an anionic emulsifier if you dump some TEA (or NaOH) in your formula. Oh wait it’s TEA-stearate! Nevermind 🙂 I’m a big believer in self education.

[ngarayeva001]

If you have a corporate domain, you can subscribe to several professional magazines that publish suppliers’ generic formulas. Most known are:

https://www.personalcaremagazine.com/
https://www.happi.com/ and 
https://www.cosmeticsandtoiletries.com/

You can also create an account with several large suppliers to get access to their example formulae. Not like those are perfect, but at least a starting point and free. Ulprospector and Seppic won’t let you get registered unless you can prove you are in the industry and part of an active business. Others don’t ask questions unless you would try to get a free sample (so my advice is don’t ask, just use their websites for info).

I haven’t tried to get an account with Stepan (I am not too much into surfs), but this is probably the one you want to consider.

https://www.stepan.com/content/stepan-dot-com/en.html

Croda and BASF will let you register as long as you have a corporate domain.

Dow is the best. All info is in open access. One doesn’t even need an account to access their formulae.

[ngarayeva001]

Post the formula (at least the ingredients). There are preservatives that mess up whatever formula you add it to. PE9010 isn’t one of them. You might need to change something in the formula.

[ngarayeva001]

To clarify BHT is butylated hydroxytoluene - an antioxidant, not BHT salicylic acid.

[ngarayeva001]

The best of my cleansing balms (it is a commercial product reverse-engineered)

INCI	%
Ethylhexyl Palmitate	35.45%
Cetyl Ethylhexanoate	35.00%
PEG-20 Glyceryl Triisostearate	12.00%
PEG-10 Isostearate	10.00%
Perfume	0.50%
BHT	0.05%
Synthetic Wax	7.00%

I don’t think anything compares to this. It’s based on a popular Korean product. I know that sourcing materials might be challenging. I bought most from https://myskinrecipes.com/en
GTIS is from https://www.glamourcosmetics.it/it/

[ngarayeva001]

I am glad it worked. The only comment, grapeseed oil has a very short shelf life. Some suggestions:

Sunflower oil	68%	ok
Cetyl alcohol	5%	ok but you can just up your soy wax to 12-13%
Polysorbate 80	15%	Increased
Soy Wax	10%	ok
Vit E	0.20%	0.5% might be too much
Greentea extract	1%	I don’t have an opinion (not a fan of plant extracts)
Phenoxyethanol 0.5%	0.50%	Can’t comment on preservatives
Ethylgexylglycerin + capryl glycol 0.5%	0.50%	Can’t comment on preservatives

[ngarayeva001]

In theory, lipstick can be made similarly, but the need for moulds and cooling tunnels might make that non-feasible financially.

So the long answer to your question: you can make the “paint mixing” shop for make-up. But not all products can be made like this, and those that can require an investment in equipment that would make the whole enterprise non-feasible commercially. 

Don’t get discouraged. The idea is cool but needs further development. I would definitely like such mix it yourself make-up shop as a consumer.

[ngarayeva001]

On a separate note, the cream format of blush and highlighter (provided it’s mixed in a store, not by a consumer) can be relatively easy. 

I make several hundred grams of cream blush base and mix it with liquid pigment when I fancy a new colour. 

INCI	%
Ricinus Communis (Castor) Seed Oil	41%
Hydrogenated Polyisobutene	10%
Bis-Diglyceryl Polyacyladipate-2	13%
Polyhydroxystearic acid	2%
Euphorbia Cerifera (Candelilla) Wax	7%
Microcrystalline wax	5%
Polyethene wax	3%
Pigment blend	20%

The base is 80% of the final product. The pigment is usually 50% diisostearyl malate 50% (made by me) or premade blends I buy from TKB 
https://tkbtrading.com/products/the-diy-chocolate-lip-liquid-color-set?_pos=4&_sid=dcebe910a&_ss=r

Please don’t use that formula for commercial purposes because I created it to mimic a particular product for personal use. I would formulate it differently if it weren’t for personal use. It doesn’t have a proper preservation system (not ok for commercial), and I didn’t add antioxidants because I don’t add fragrance (you won’t get away with that for a commercial product).

A similar approach might be applied to cream eyeliners, provided it is mixed by a trained consultant in a shop, not by the consumer. Eyeliner must be formulated by a professional, and much thinking must be put into preservation as it is applied close to the eyes. Again formulating a chassis is not the same as formulating a one-off product. It must have some room for error.

[ngarayeva001]

2) Another idea can be using microencapsulated pigments like the one below https://www.glamourcosmetics.it/it/surprise-color-set (sorry don’t know who is the manufacturer).

You can create a base with TiO2 and provide those encapsulated pigments in a separate packaging to mix as the person applies (put some base on a back of a hand, add microcapsules mix with a sponge/brush) it but you need to think through the measuring system (how much to add? you would need a light version, a dark version and pink version again).

A lot of thinking is required here but it would definitely impress the consumer. I believe Clinique used microencapsulated pigments in one of its products.

[ngarayeva001]

So, a couple of ideas to bring the “DIY” vibe to the product.
1) https://www.glamourcosmetics.it/it/gc-base-bb-cream-creamy-nude
This is a premade foundation pigment blend. The supplier is The Innovation Company https://theinnovationcompany.fr/en/products/creasperse-bb/

You can create a foundation base using the lightest neutral colour (or even white) and provide, say, 3 small bottles of pure liquid pigment blends 1) dark neutral, 2) pink undertone, and 3) yellow undertone. I can’t emphasise liquid enough. Please don’t mess with the dry powder; it will not end well (the consumer won’t be able to mix it). The innovation company sell relatively small quantities (I emailed them several years ago, and they agreed to 10kg). 10kg was not what a hobbyist needs, so I found the Italian repackager listed above. They, unfortunately, only have two shades, but you can buy a small bottle to test it before going to the original supplier.

Having said that, you have to be very clear with the formulator who will create the base that it is a base and it will be mixed with something else. It absolutely must be accounted for during the product development (more preservatives, etc.).

[ngarayeva001]

There’s a couple solutions to this (for foundations) but you would have to give up on dry powder idea. I will share a couple of links later today.

[ngarayeva001]

In my personal experience the only format that cleanses and moisturizes at the same time is balm. Surfactant and oil. Banila, Clinique take the day off etc.

[ngarayeva001]

Short answer: not feasible at all.
Lond answer:

I don’t know where to start as this topic is endless, so l will stick to one product I have more experience with: foundations.

Foundations pigments are made of TiO2 and three iron oxides (yellow, red, and black). No consumer would be able to mix those three themselves to obtain their “perfect colour”. Ask an artist who paints portraits how long it took them to figure out how to mix human skin colour.

These pigments are not easy to mix. They must be treated (say with methicone) to mix with oil. You need the right type of oil. You need dispersing agents such as polyhydroxystearic acid and hectorites to make it work. You need special equipment (three roll mills etc) to make it work. It’s problem after problem after problem. You solve one, and another arises.

Also, foundations are mostly W/Si. W/Si are fussy structures. If your customer adds more of the pigment blend than that base could take, it will separate. If not right away it will do it in a week. If not in a week in a month. The customer won’t be happy.

To summarise, there is a lot to it. It’s not the same as mixing paint, unfortunately.

[ngarayeva001]

Some tips and tricks:

1) think through your preservation system. I formulate in my kitchen and although I bathe my working area in bleach and use outrageously overpriced steam-distilled water (which I also boil just in case) I can only trust “toxic chemicals” when it comes to preservation. Phenonip, phenonip, phenonip. Phenonip is a blend of parabens and phenoxy. Parabens are prone to partitioning to the oil phase, so you want to heat it. That’s why I am not big on cold process w/o. Even if I have nothing to melt, I heat my water to ensure parabens don’t migrate to the oil phase.

2) I generally prefer PEGs but there are actually pretty decent PEG-free w/o emulsifiers. I like Emullium Illustro by Gatefosse, PolyAquol VO4 and Isolan GPS. Having said that I am still a big fan of w/si and Dow’s Formulation Aid 5225 and PEG-10 Dimethicone are great. PEG-30 DPHS with magnesium stearate in the oil phase makes a beautiful texture and is more or less easy to make right from the first attempt.

3) Always start with the supplier’s suggestions when it comes to %. When it comes to the process, I follow the standard w/o approach: overhead stirrer, water added by drops (takes ages), homogenise when cools down. If viscosity increased after you applied high shear, you did it right (not a rule but it’s usually a good indicator).

4) Already been suggested by more experienced people but I will repeat: salts in the water phase, gellants in the oil phase. Magnesium stearate is a good one (needs to be heated to dissolve). I don’t like the waxy feel, so often search for alternative solutions to several % of wax in the oil phase, but that is playing with fire. My current favourite is a combination of Stearyl Dimethicone and silica (or silica dimethyl silylate). Obviously, 3-5% of hydrogenated castor wax is a much more reliable approach.

5) skip water phase gellants unless you are making seppic’s gel trap (which is weird anyway).

6) Start simple. Don’t overload it with actives. Your goal is to make it stay together. Only start adding actives after you “know your formula”.

7) Be thoughtful of emollients (oil phase). I would stick to the supplier’s recommendations in the beginning.

I probably forgot something, but if you go w/o a route you can ping me.

[ngarayeva001]

I guess many people here know of my weird obsession with w/o emulsions. I always advise against w/o because you must have a reason to take w/o route. For some, that reason is creating a formula for a client. For me, it’s just a weird desire to fight against the second law of thermodynamics (knowing well in advance who is going to win). Jokes aside, happy to help you to fix w/o formula if you are persuaded it’s what you need. I think you are just after an occlusive o/w or maybe even a balm, not actual w/o. They are fussy. Took me hundreds of attempts to get them right. Get them right here meaning not separating for over 18 months stored in a cupboard and looking somewhat decent under a microscope. I am a hobbyist and don’t run proper stability tests.

[ngarayeva001]

@Herbnerd that toothpaste sounds nasty for adults but having a 5 year old I must say you are very wrong about marketing. It just needs to be marketed to kids. Parents would buy anything to make their kids brush their teeth. Imagine Halloween variations? I think you found a niche to explore:)

[ngarayeva001]

@toketsu by the way, you can find almost any ingredient in small quantities if you are willing to pay for shipping and prepared to get them from different places. Any o/w would be cost effective to make even if you get ingredients from 5 different countries because commercial products have insane margins. Surfactant products are usually more cost effective to buy. You also don’t need special equipment unless you make w/o. The main expense are scales and pH meter (good quality Chinese would do).

[ngarayeva001]

One important thing, if that’s w/o preservative added to cool down phase won’t be very effective: your external phase is oil. You need to preserve water.

[ngarayeva001]

OliviaLeigh said:

Okay so here goes  :# 

Heated Oil phase 75 

Cetearyl alcohol                  5%

Candellia wax                     5%

Rose wax                            1.5%

Murumuru Butter                8%

Mango Butter                              5%

Shea Butter                         3%

Grapeseed Oil                     16%

Camellia Oil                         4%

Coco-caprylate-caprate       5%

Arrow Root                          1%

Lecithin  (sunflower)            2%

PG4-O                                 8%

Heated Water Phase 65 

Hydrosol                             20%

Distilled water                     10%

Rice starch                          1%

Glycerite                              1.5%

Cool Down Phase 40

Preservative 12                   1%

Sea Buckthorn CO2             0.5

Sodium Hyaluronate Gel     2.5 (1% HA)

Eo blend will be added later under 1%

Sorry but if it’s w/o there’s a lot that is wrong with it. Let’s start with challenging the concept: do you actually need w/o? You can make an occlusive o/w with very high oil phase. 

[ngarayeva001]

W/O emulsions are not stable by nature. Unfortunately 2 months isn’t enough to conclude. Please post the formula because from the description of ingredients something doesn’t sound right.