MelindaNicole
Forum Replies Created
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When I first got into formulating I was watching a IPCS video and she referred to either cetyl alcohol as an emulsifier and I was confused because I had never heard anyone refer to it as that. I left a comment and she did respond but the answer didn’t clear things up. I just tried to find it but it was 3-4 years ago.
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I would definitely try the ingredients neat to see if it’s a reaction. But don’t use anything neat that isn’t safe to use at 100%. My skin doesn’t like glycerin, I can only use small amounts, usually under 2%. I believe glycerin can cause warmth at a high percentage, and the amount you are using is a lot for a leave on product. Do you usually have reactive skin? Do you have any allergies?
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Happy birthday Perry!!! Hope you have a wonderful day!
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The pH color changing is due to bromo acid powder dye that is water insoluble. I bought a couple this past summer but haven’t had a chance to play with them yet.
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Ultra mild is a nice blend, but I didn’t like it for use in shampoo, but I only wash my hair a couple of times a week.
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I had success by mixing salicylic acid with propylene glycol and forming a paste, then adding sodium lactate and let it sit until it is completely dissolved. I use betaine and xanthan gum in my formula, as well. It’s been about a year since I experimented with how much I could solubilize and I believe I got to 20% but the amount of sodium lactate I had to use increased the pH too much. I think 16% was the highest where I could add it to my formula without having to lower the pH. I wasn’t using the full amount in my formulas just a total of 2% salicylic acid.
There is an article about using hydrotropic agents to dissolve salicylic acid that helped me a lot and I can’t seem to find it in my files or online. But I believe someone posted in the forum before.
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I would get rid of the almond oil.
I usually get a vortex going with my water, then add the cationic gaur, and let it mix for a couple of minutes, then add lactic or citric acid to get to ph between 5-7 and then add my surfactants. I had a lot of issues with other gums when it came to surfactant systems, but cationic gaur always works out for me.
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Crazy, I had never heard of blue foundation before. I do add a very small amount of ultramarine blue pigment to my foundation to match my skin tone.
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@georgebenson I recently ordered a bunch of ingredients from MySkinRecipes.com and they have aqua sf-1, that’s actually how I came across their site because I have been searching for aqua sf-1 for quite awhile. They have all sorts of ingredients that I can’t find at any other diy sites. You can also do custom amounts and there is a lot of helpful information on every ingredient and they will list other ingredients that are similar. I am not sure if they ship to every country, but they ship to the US and they are located in Thailand. I originally thought shipping was free, but it’s not they will send you a quote for shipping them you can either move forward with your order or cancel. Everything was packaged really well and didn’t take too long to arrive.
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I know this is from a month ago but MySkinRecipes carried Lithium magnesium sodium silicate. https://www.myskinrecipes.com/shop/th/anti-settling-%E0%B8%9B%E0%B9%89%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%87%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%B1%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%95%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%95%E0%B8%B0%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%99/9542-lithium-magnesium-sodium-silicate-laponite.html
Another optioin might me TKB thickening clay (Quaternium-90 Sepiolite, Quaternium-90 Montmorillonite) https://tkbtrading.com/products/tkbs-thickening-clayI personally haven’t used either of them, or hetorite gel so I can’t give personal experience but from what I’ve read it sounds promising.
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I bought Sodium Lauroyl Isethionate this past fall and wasn’t finding much information on it so I was testing it’s solubility and used just Distilled water, CAPB, tetrasodium EDTA, SLI, plant collagen, and gernall plus and it was a nice clear system. I then split the cleanser into to two, one for a foamer bottle and the other I added salt to thicken and ended up with a beautiful pearlized cleanser. That was back in November and it’s still looking good. To me it seems that SLI is between SCMI and SCI when it comes to solubility.
I haven’t gotten around to working with it again, but I when I do I will be including some cationic guar or a carbomer.
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I believe it’s to do with irritation. I have seen it said not to apply AHAs, L-AA, and Tretinoin to wet skin due to irritation. When I have applied AHA’s to damp skin I have noticed more stinging and I believe it’s due to skin oils not being present and the acid seeps in to the skin a little more. I usually wait 15 minutes before I apply AHAs but I apply Tretinoin right after I pat my skin dry, without noticing a difference or any irritation.
I have looked for a scientific reason why, but didn’t see anything.
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Avick said:Hi Graillotion!
Here is the IFRA standard for benzyl benzoate: https://ifrafragrance.org/standards/IFRA_STD48_0161.pdf
It sounds like you are making a product in category 4-I believe this website describes them correctly but not 100% sure: https://plushfolly.com/Information/Page-/-Category
So, you have a pretty high max percentage that you can use-26.7%, I believe, which is way more than you would need.
I’m also a fan of coumarin, which has a subtle, sweet hay scent and can be found as a natural isolate in powder form. When mixed with the essential oils, it does linger longer and also repels mosquitoes.
It’s what was responsible for the surprise off-label success of Avon Skin So Soft as a mosquito repellent.
Very interesting about the Avon Skin so soft! I grew up in Alaska where the state bird is the mosquito 😉 and we used that all the time because it smells so much better than other insect repellents and it works just as well. I never knew why, but now I do. Thank you!
I have been thinking about making perfume and I am just starting to read about the different components. I have been using ethanol and fragrance oils which smell nice, but don’t last very long. So I want to create my own fragrance profile.
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ggpetrov said:Dr Catherine Pratt said:1501 Hi you can use perfume fixatives like Glucam P 20, also use bottom notes like Sandal wood & resins.Good luck Catherine Pratt
Hello, speaking of Glucam P20, do you have an experience with it? I am interested of this ingredient as a humectant, instead of using glycols - propylene, pentylene. A local supplier sell this ingredient.
I was searching for different humectants to use and came across Glucam P-20 and it was advertised as a powerful humectant. So I used it in a moisturizer and when I smelled the moisturizer I was shocked by the scent because I hadn’t added any fragrances and the only new ingredients I had used were potassium azeloyl diglycinate and Glucam P 20, and sure enough I opened the bottle of Glucam and found that odd smell. I thought something was wrong with it and did a little research to find out it’s used as a fragrance fixative.
It does have a nice skin feel, where it has a light emollient feel, but the scent is off putting for me, but I also have a really strong sense of smell. I can’t remember how much I used in it, without looking through my formulas. If you add fragrance to your formula it probably wouldn’t be bad, or if you used a small percentage in your formula.
I was searching the forum to see if anyone has used it in a perfume. I am going to do a little experimenting with it and see if it helps top notes last longer and if it gives the fragrance more body.
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Do you know if you are using R grade HPC? If so it won’t clump together and you can add it to the vortex of well agitated room temperature water and let it stir until it is fully hydrated. It will also thicken with other solvents like ethanol and pg. I have only used it in aqueous solutions, though.
If you are using R grade HEC it will delay hydration so that it doesn’t clump together. It needs to be stirred until fully hydrated which can take up to 25 minutes. I add it to room temperature water, but It will hydrate faster with a higher ph and temperature, but too high can cause lumping. Once it’s fully hydrated it can be heated and ph can be adjusted.
I know you didn’t mention HPMC, but I will add the instructions I used for it in case in the future you work with it. With HPMC you want to heat 1/3 of the water from the total water in your formula to 75C and then add the HPMC to vortex of agitated water, it won’t dissolve in hot water but it will disperse evenly. When the HPMC is dispersed add the rest of the room temperature water and stir for 30 minutes. When the temperature is below 25C, continue with the rest of the formula.
Instructions can vary depending on the manufacturer of the ingredient, though.
I have been using Ashland Benecel E10M HPMC, Natrosol 250 HHR CS HEC, and Klucel H CS HPC -
I know this is an old post, but thought I’d share my experience in case someone else comes across this while searching for info on azelaic acid.
I bought azelaic acid for FSS as well and thought it was strange that it had such a low recommended usage amount because it’s usually used at a higher percentage in products. I have been using it at 10% and it’s fine. I never disregard recommended amounts, but because I have been using a higher percentage for the past few years I decided to go with what I usually use. But the stuff I make is just for personal use.I have read that it can recrystalize if heated above 104f. But have also heard that it’s too low of a ph that can cause recrystalizing. I bought an azelaic serum that would recrystalize, so I would have to stick the bottle in hot water. Later I found out that it had a ph of 6.3. I believe azelaic acid does well at 4-5ph. The company had a note on their site that recrystalizing was normal and not a big deal. 🙄 I had purchased that serum before I started formulating and was naive.
I have had to heat it to about 130f when using 10% azelaic and 20% glycols. I didn’t want to go any higher with the glycols in my formula. I did make a 7% azelaic acid moisturizer today and used 16% glycols and it was dissolved completely by 120f. But today I used a coffee grinder(for my cosmetics only) and turned it into a powder which helped it dissolve faster. I haven’t had any issues with recrystalizing. I have used ethoxydiglycol, propylene glycol and glycerin as solvents.
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Yasmin123 said:How much panthenol would you suggest?
Personally, I wouldn’t use any because it’s not beneficial in a shampoo or shampoo bar, because it’s water soluble and it will just go down the drain. Panthenol is better for leave on products.
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Galaxy1111 said:OK I want to mix water with essential oils and sell them!
ozgirl said:
What type of product are you trying to make? You have several threads started on the forum for the same problem but at no point do you mention what you are trying to make. You need to provide this information along with a complete formula to get any real help.Why do you want the water and essential oil to foam? If you are just using water and EO, you are just going to have some fragrant water, this isn’t going to foam. If you are wanting to create a fragrant spray, I would suggest ethanol 95%(190 proof) 55%-75% Distilled water, and fragrance oil or essential oil 1-2%. I found this worked best when I made some body and room sprays. But I don’t know the regulations on selling something with alcohol in it. I haven’t used Poly suga mulse, so I don’t know the percentage you would use, but try looking the information up using the INCI: Sorbitan Oleate Decylglucoside Crosspolymer or CAS #: 1443994-56-6. You could use distilled water, poly suga mulse, essential oil 0.5-1.5%, and a broad spectrum preservative.
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Does it stay neutralized even if the pH is low around 3.5? I thought as long as the pH was in the optimal range it would free up those acids. A lot of the times when I make a product with salicylic acid I will add an AHA, like lactic acid. Would that counteract the neutralization from the sodium lactate?
I remember Urea, sodium lactate, sodium citrate, and peg 400 mentioned in that study about using hydrotropes to dissolve salicylic acid. Out of those, would peg 400 be a better option to use with propylene glycol? I thought about trying the urea, but it’s a pain by itself with the pH drift.
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Yay! I’m glad it worked out! I use Jane Barber’s surfactant calculator which is wonderful along with everything else she has on Making skincare. https://makingskincare.com/surfactant-calculator/
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What I meant about the percentage, is if you are counting the mixture of the surfactant and water, which is the way it comes, or are you just putting down the active amount of surfactant down next to the surfactants and putting the water in the mixture into your water percentage. Does that make sense? When I write my formulas I put the whole surfactant mixture, but I have the active matter calculated that I note next to it.
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That’s great advice, I didn’t know that non- ionics can only handle a certain amount of NaCl. For the most part I use anionics and amphoterics in my surfactants systems. I really like using Sodium Lauroyl Istethionate(SLI) or Sodium Cocoyl Methyl Isethionate(SCMI) in my shampoos and body washes, it’s easier to use than SCI, with these you want to use tetrasodium edta. I’d still use a chelator in your formula, regardless. Disodium Laureth Sulfosuccinate(DLS) and AOS 40 are a couple others that I love. LSB was also my favorite, but they quit making. I usually do a blend of these with CAPB (cocamidopropyl betaine). Hopefully by switching out the non-ionic for an anionic it will fix the issue.
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Are the particles completely dissolved before adding the surfactants? Try just doing water and the gum and adjust the pH with lactic acid or citric acid to see if. Usually when you are seeing clumping or separation it’s to do with the gum not hydrating fully.
I was looking through my formulas and on average I use between .8-1% but I also use surfs that can be thickened with salt. I believe 1.5% is the highest on usage, so you can add more if it’s too thin.
I know how frustrating it can be working with surfactant systems and gums, I have had the same issue with regular guar. Are you using coco betaine or cocamidopropyl betaine? With your percentage of the surfactants, is that the amount or is that the active surfactant mater?
I’m not sure if you have already looked at the formulation guide from Ashland that’s on lotion crafters site. I will had a screenshot of it.
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Yes, as long as you aren’t using the almond oil. Glycerol oleate is a good re-fating agent, which you should be able to use in this but when you are trying to figure out what the issue is, it’s easier to figure it out. Fragrance can also be the issue because they are so complex. Make it without the fragrance and if it stays stable you can then add it and see if it stays stable.
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You don’t need high sheer, but you need to wet and disperse the gum. I use an overhead stirrer or magnetic stirrer. You should be able to stir it by hand and make sure it’s wetted and dispersed before adjusting the pH. You can try to slurry the cationic gaur with glycerin or propylene glycol and then add it to the water and mix and then adjust the pH. I would get rid of the glycerol oleate and the almond oil and try making it again. Make sure all your surfactants are in the pH range it needs to be.
