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HEC / HPC hydration time: Is everyone waiting several hours before proceeding
So totally new to HEC and HPC…..as I have ventured down the cationic rabbit hole…. Received it yesterday….and noticed it took several hours to fully hydrate in just a simple water (room temperature) and HPC experiement.
Does that mean…I need to create that slurry several hours before making a formula….or do people just move on before it is fully hydrated, create the emulsion, and assume it will finish hydrating in the emulsion?
If that is the process, I am just a little leery of proper distribution in the emulsion, as the solids floated until they became fully hydrated.
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11 Replies
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Heating, or increasing the pH (>pH
of wetted HEC hydrates it. Not sure if HPC is the same. -
This is how to hydrate different thickners
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Hydration of hec at different pH and temperature
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Thank you…I followed step 6…and seemed to get a product that did not have the floating layer for several hours.
So I produced my HPC slurry in advance….and it cooled to room temp… I will then use it as my water in the water phase…which means it will be heated a second time. I assume there is no issue with this?
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You have to try and see if it works or not.
Sometimes by trying we find things about an ingredient that no one has said before even the supplier.For example the best way of adding HPMC for me is to first add it to small amount of hot water, then add that to cold water, then increase the pH.No one says this is a way of hydrating it but it is the that works best for me. -
Do you know if you are using R grade HPC? If so it won’t clump together and you can add it to the vortex of well agitated room temperature water and let it stir until it is fully hydrated. It will also thicken with other solvents like ethanol and pg. I have only used it in aqueous solutions, though.
If you are using R grade HEC it will delay hydration so that it doesn’t clump together. It needs to be stirred until fully hydrated which can take up to 25 minutes. I add it to room temperature water, but It will hydrate faster with a higher ph and temperature, but too high can cause lumping. Once it’s fully hydrated it can be heated and ph can be adjusted.
I know you didn’t mention HPMC, but I will add the instructions I used for it in case in the future you work with it. With HPMC you want to heat 1/3 of the water from the total water in your formula to 75C and then add the HPMC to vortex of agitated water, it won’t dissolve in hot water but it will disperse evenly. When the HPMC is dispersed add the rest of the room temperature water and stir for 30 minutes. When the temperature is below 25C, continue with the rest of the formula.
Instructions can vary depending on the manufacturer of the ingredient, though.
I have been using Ashland Benecel E10M HPMC, Natrosol 250 HHR CS HEC, and Klucel H CS HPC -
MelindaNicole said:Do you know if you are using R grade HPC? If so it won’t clump together and you can add it to the vortex of well agitated room temperature water and let it stir until it is fully hydrated. It will also thicken with other solvents like ethanol and pg. I have only used it in aqueous solutions, though.
If you are using R grade HEC it will delay hydration so that it doesn’t clump together. It needs to be stirred until fully hydrated which can take up to 25 minutes. I add it to room temperature water, but It will hydrate faster with a higher ph and temperature, but too high can cause lumping. Once it’s fully hydrated it can be heated and ph can be adjusted.
I know you didn’t mention HPMC, but I will add the instructions I used for it in case in the future you work with it. With HPMC you want to heat 1/3 of the water from the total water in your formula to 75C and then add the HPMC to vortex of agitated water, it won’t dissolve in hot water but it will disperse evenly. When the HPMC is dispersed add the rest of the room temperature water and stir for 30 minutes. When the temperature is below 25C, continue with the rest of the formula.
Instructions can vary depending on the manufacturer of the ingredient, though.
I have been using Ashland Benecel E10M HPMC, Natrosol 250 HHR CS HEC, and Klucel H CS HPCFor large batch you can heat only 20x water than HPMC and mix. For example if you use %0.3 HPMC, mix with %6 of heated water and then add to cold water if your system is cold process and you want to save money and time by not heating %1/3 of water phase
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Well got around to making the hand cream yesterday with a pre-made HPC solution (fully hydrated). Sadly after adding all water phase ingredients…I had something similar to egg-drop soup
So….since SepiGel 305 is working…I think I will just stick with it. Thank you all for your input.
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Abdullah said:For large batch you can heat only 20x water than HPMC and mix. For example if you use %0.3 HPMC, mix with %6 of heated water and then add to cold water if your system is cold process and you want to save money and time by not heating %1/3 of water phase
I am new to use HPMC. I want to know what is the effect of other thickners like NaCl, CAPB, CDEA ,GDS, etc when thicken with HPMC . How much I can reduce them ? Please share your experience.
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Aziz said:Abdullah said:For large batch you can heat only 20x water than HPMC and mix. For example if you use %0.3 HPMC, mix with %6 of heated water and then add to cold water if your system is cold process and you want to save money and time by not heating %1/3 of water phase
I am new to use HPMC. I want to know what is the effect of other thickners like NaCl, CAPB, CDEA ,GDS, etc when thicken with HPMC . How much I can reduce them ? Please share your experience.
HPMC is a thickner. By adding this you will need less of other thickners. How much? That depends on entire formula and how much viscosity you want
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