[jemolian]

From the results on ulprospector there are some blends, but i didn’t manage to find any when googling, so i’ll probably buy the Phenethyl alcohol separately. 

I’ve tested with the Phenylpropanol (and) Ethylhexylglycerin from Making Cosmetics, the fragance wise i’m fine with it but if when using plant oils, you won’t be able to smell it anymore. Not sure if Phenethyl alcohol will be the overwhelmed by plant oils. Also Phenylpropanol make my skin tingle, not sure if Phenethyl alcohol would. I’m hoping not. If not i would have to stick to PE 9010 and perhaps use a booster. 

[jemolian]

How about Phenylpropanol or Phenetyl Alcohol? Though both has a rose fragrance to it. I believe Phenylpropanol is lighter in terms of fragrance based on the comments here:
https://chemistscorner.com/cosmeticsciencetalk/discussion/comment/39535#Comment_39535

[jemolian]

I’d say it depends on the type of ingredient you are intending to aid the penetration. You might be able to find a test online. For example, for Ethyl Ascorbic Acid, Glycerin is only second to Propylene Glycol. It depends if you want to have the additional benefits of glycols or diols in your formulation as well. 

[jemolian]

I believe they are edible, if they are food grade. Not sure what you are comparing? 

[jemolian]

I think it’s fine if you split it this way. Remember to try on different skin types, perhaps the people with dry skin might not have the “gloss” issue or a lessened version of it.

I don’t think i’ve seen you mentioned about the split sales though, haha.  

[jemolian]

It depends on the demographic you are marketing to.

If you are marketing to the Koreans, they are fine with the slightly glossy or so called “dewy” look that is normally achieved with makeup. 

For the rest, they might be more concerned about the “absorption”, as the look of the product on the skin might be part of the aspect of said “absorption”. Some people might also regard the “dewy” look as greasy. 

I’d say the only way is to ask the demographic, for example via reddit for their preference in the “finish” of the product. 

[jemolian]

Have you tried 3:2 for 202:68 + 0.6% to 0.8% Aristoflex?

Just thinking how it should go at at the moment. It’s the combo i’d try.  

[jemolian]

You will need to confirm the xanthan is compatible with the BTMS, though i’m not sure about the DuraQuench if it will be, if not you can try replacing it with a non-ionic liquid crystal emulsifier. 

What is the require or restriction for acneic skin anyway? Just curious. 

[jemolian]

@Pattsi there are some covered by this pdf here as i found it when searching for info on triglycerol 
http://www.scientificspectator.com/documents/personal%20care%20spectator/Glycerol%20a%20Moisturizer.pdf

For the PEG/PPG/Polybutylene Glycol-8/5/3 Glycerin or Wilbride S-753, it’s more of a premium version of Glycerin with a less tacky skin feel, though it seems to boost the humectancy if in a higher humidity environment. It seems to have some additional interesting properties like inhibiting the absorption of lipid ingredients. 
http://www.nof.co.jp/cosmeticlounge/english/material/pdf/wilbride_s-753d_(leaflet).pdf

Haven’t tried the others so can’t comment too much on those. 

I think a mix of Gylcerin, Wilbride-s753 & Diglycerin would be a good experiment. 

[jemolian]

I’ll update again. I’ll only receive it in 2 weeks since it can only be sea shipped.  

Hope there will be a Diglycerin thread, perhaps you guys can order, repack and sell it  

[jemolian]

Thanks for the confirmation @helenhelen. I’ve ordered 100ml from China since it’s seems there’s only 1 repacker there. They do have triglycerol but based on the one of the paper i read recently, Glycerin has a better healing rate, followed by Diglycerin, though i can’t find much info on Triglycerol itself to determine how well it performs.  
 

[jemolian]

I’ve noted my experience on the other thread already (ISIS vs DuraQuench). 

I find K-20W very interesting since i’ve tested at 0.5% in a toner format, 2% to 3.5% in a gel cream format. 

With my original gel cream formulation, at 1.5% Glycerin, my pillow case would stick to my face due to the tackiness, and i can still feel the Glycerin in the morning. 

With the K-20W, at 2% with 1.5% Glycerin, skin feel wise, it seems to alter the tackiness significantly. Touching my face, at about 30 mins after application, it’s as though i had not applied anything, but my formulation is still working as my dry patch went away as i tested it for at least 5 days. When i used 3% K-20W with 3% Glycerin, the skin feel is the same. I’ll probably try loading it with 5% Glycerin next. 

My skin is prone to breaking out but so far it’s significantly effective for my dry skin, no breakouts so far.  

In terms of sheen, here’s the photo i took. I had applied a gel cream with 3% K-20W on the right side half, as you can see there’s no sheen. There’s a blurred reflection of the ceiling lights on the table, so you will be able to judge for reference. 

I’ve not yet tried 5% Glycerin with it yet, so perhaps i’ll try it with @Graillotion 2% recommendation soon. Though i’d like to also test out different combinations with the Diglycerin that @helenhelen mentioned. I think there are a few humectants that i can purchase, i would like to test out further. 

   

The diagram is from the NOF Macbiobride series, quite a few manufacturers has this 4 ingredients, so i’m supposing the Diglycerin would perform similarly to MP-10P based on description. I can’t find the MP-10P, so i’ll have to try the Diglycerin to find out. 

[jemolian]

I find K-20W very interesting since i’ve tested at 0.5% in a toner format, 2% to 3.5% in a gel cream format.

With my original gel cream formulation, at 1.5% Glycerin, my pillow case would stick to my face due to the tackiness, and i can still feel the Glycerin in the morning. 

With the K-20W, at 2% with 1.5% Glycerin, skin feel wise, it seems to alter the tackiness significantly. Touching my face, at about 30 mins after application, it’s as though i had not applied anything, but my formulation is still working as my dry patch went away as i tested it for at least 5 days. When i used 3% K-20W with 3% Glycerin, the skin feel is the same. I’ll probably try loading it with 5% Glycerin next. 

My skin is prone to breaking out but so far it’s significantly effective for my dry skin, no breakouts so far.  

[jemolian]

Normally they’d call it an oil. Though i’d consider oil a product base, and serum a product format, so to me, it’s a oil serum, which people will know that its commonly identified as an oil based product used at the serum step that is 30ml to 50ml. 

[jemolian]

You can use it to sub out some percentages of the Glycerin to reduce tack, as i usually do with my Betaine, though some people might be sensitive to Butylene Glycol.

I’m sensitive to some of the other Glycols / Diols, so normally i try not to use them for my face formulations, but each of them have a different texture, “tingly-ness” and sometimes “heat” to it since it’s what i normally feel when i apply them to my face. 

[jemolian]

When you use Aristoflex in a cream emulsion….do you add it to the water or oil….seems like it can be done either way?  Guessing it might not start to gel, if in the oil phase…therefore making it slightly easier to work with? Or…are you adding it post-emulsion…as that also seems to be an option?

Either one of the three way is fine, depending on your required processes of your ingredient. My Aristoflex has clumped up, so mine is a pre-made gel which i add after emulsification.   

[jemolian]

It depends on how you market it, you won’t be able to mention SPF values from it since it requires testing, though you can market it to contain some UV protective properties due to the oil. 

You can download the full text to take a look: 
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/215523935_Characteristics_of_raspberry_Rubus_idaeus_L_seed_oil

[jemolian]

Unfortunately, I’ve not really tested on butters because i’ve only seen most of the china sellers sell limited butters and most of them only stock shea butter, so i can’t really give an opinion on the rest. 

[jemolian]

I’ve not tested the feel or texture combo extensively, so i can’t comment on that too much. One of my test base combination was:

3% Montanov L
1.5% Cetyl Alcohol
0.6% Aristoflex
0.15% Ultrex 21
3% Capric / Caprylic Triglyceride
3% Glycerin

It turned out to be a very creamy moisturizer. 

[jemolian]

I think if you are not using any electrolytes, you can consider using 3% to 4% Montanov 202 with 0.75% to 1% Aristoflex, depending on how thick you need the moisturizer to be. If you are using some small amounts of electrolytes, then 1% to 1.5% Sepinov should be fine. 

Though with the K-20W, using carbomers would be fine as well. Normally i’d use Ultrez 10 or 20 depending on the electrolytes.  

[jemolian]

I’m still observing the performance of the K-20W over a few days.

I added too much by accident, so it was 3.5%, for initial observation, it seems that is increases glide and also detacks the humectants significantly. Previously my pillow case would stick to my face slightly but with the K-20W, it seems totally fine. I probably can readjust the other ingredients accordingly to increase humectancy. 

[jemolian]

No problem. I have to return the favor for the K-20W recommendation somehow. If you need the rest of the Montanov ones, i believe i should have it. 

[jemolian]

I believe seppic has tested them so you normally can find some reference to that in their longer product info PDFs. Below are my dropbox links to the files if you haven’t saved them before: 

Montanov 202
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ri9tfvxjlcaz0t9/0922_Montanov_202_logo%20gb%5B1%5D.pdf?dl=0

Montanov 68
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ru7s5v7dms51bu5/montanov%2068.pdf?dl=0

For the 165 type, not sure if any manufacturer as tested it since they are widely produced. 

[jemolian]

Normally as part of a formulation challenge to myself, sometimes i will setup some weird challenge for my moisturizers, but i’d normally run through my ingredients via the following to see how consumers would perceive it: 

• https://www.skincarisma.com/ingredient-analyzer
• https://cosmily.com/ingredient-checker
• https://incidecoder.com/decode-inci
• https://www.cosdna.com/eng/ingredients.php
• https://folliculitisscout.com/ 

Comedogenicity varies from person to person so, it still largely depends on the person if they would break out from it. 

[jemolian]

Normally a day cream would be lighter or lower in percentage in terms of lipids or texture. Something that can possibly go before a sunscreen. 

For the night cream, usually it would be on the heavier side, depending on the lipids of choice, if a day cream is too shiny, the user may also choose to use it at night instead. However they may also choose to use a day cream but add an oil to make it “heavier”, so they don’t need another cream. 

If you need examples of real routines, i’d recommend that you take a look at the reddit posts that people lists their routine on the SkincareAddiction or Asianbeauty sub.