Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating Floraesters K-20W - experiences? Worth it or just add more glycerin?

  • Floraesters K-20W - experiences? Worth it or just add more glycerin?

    Posted by Zink on October 5, 2020 at 6:12 pm

    Floraesters K-20W are C42 wax esters hydrolyzed into its alcohol and jojobate constituents which they hypothesize help trap glycerin molecules on the surface of the skin hence improving its humectant potential, possibly without imparting the stickiness higher glycerin % could result in.

    2011 Hydrolyzed Jojoba Esters to Potentiate Glycerin Moisturization

    Any real world experience with it? If you use 5% glycerin can it give you a boost in efficacy at say 1 - 1.5% without imparting more stickiness? Is Jojoba wax “sheen” an issue?

    Pattsi replied 3 years, 9 months ago 5 Members · 11 Replies
  • 11 Replies
  • Graillotion

    Member
    October 5, 2020 at 8:42 pm

    It has several different uses.  As you know…I am a fan of it.

    I use it in one product as part of a fragrance fixative (very low rate)…and I get EO’s to still have a strong scent after 8 hours.

    I also use it in other products for TEWL enhancement at 4 or 5X the rate.  I do not use a meter, but from the day I started using it, the products started performing the way I hoped they would.

    @jemolian has also started working with it, and might be able to provide some input.

    I am not a chemist.

  • jemolian

    Member
    October 6, 2020 at 12:40 am

    I’ve noted my experience on the other thread already (ISIS vs DuraQuench). 

    I find K-20W very interesting since i’ve tested at 0.5% in a toner format, 2% to 3.5% in a gel cream format. 

    With my original gel cream formulation, at 1.5% Glycerin, my pillow case would stick to my face due to the tackiness, and i can still feel the Glycerin in the morning. 

    With the K-20W, at 2% with 1.5% Glycerin, skin feel wise, it seems to alter the tackiness significantly. Touching my face, at about 30 mins after application, it’s as though i had not applied anything, but my formulation is still working as my dry patch went away as i tested it for at least 5 days. When i used 3% K-20W with 3% Glycerin, the skin feel is the same. I’ll probably try loading it with 5% Glycerin next. 

    My skin is prone to breaking out but so far it’s significantly effective for my dry skin, no breakouts so far.  

    In terms of sheen, here’s the photo i took. I had applied a gel cream with 3% K-20W on the right side half, as you can see there’s no sheen. There’s a blurred reflection of the ceiling lights on the table, so you will be able to judge for reference. 

    I’ve not yet tried 5% Glycerin with it yet, so perhaps i’ll try it with @Graillotion 2% recommendation soon. Though i’d like to also test out different combinations with the Diglycerin that @helenhelen mentioned. I think there are a few humectants that i can purchase, i would like to test out further. 


       

    The diagram is from the NOF Macbiobride series, quite a few manufacturers has this 4 ingredients, so i’m supposing the Diglycerin would perform similarly to MP-10P based on description. I can’t find the MP-10P, so i’ll have to try the Diglycerin to find out. 

  • Graillotion

    Member
    October 6, 2020 at 1:37 am

    I think @MarkBroussard might also give this product a thumbs up.

  • helenhelen

    Member
    October 6, 2020 at 8:59 am

    jemolian said:


       

    The diagram is from the NOF Macbiobride series, quite a few manufacturers has this 4 ingredients, so i’m supposing the Diglycerin would perform similarly to MP-10P based on description. I can’t find the MP-10P, so i’ll have to try the Diglycerin to find out. 

    @jemolian Yes that’s quite a good description of diglycerin from my experience. It doesn’t go as deep as glycerin, but has more effect on the surface.. it adds moistness and slip without oiliness or tack. The lasting skin feel is soft/smooth/silky. Undiluted it is very thick and tacky but once it’s in water or an emulsion it’s like silky water. I just wish it was easier to get hold of!

  • jemolian

    Member
    October 6, 2020 at 9:08 am

    Thanks for the confirmation @helenhelen. I’ve ordered 100ml from China since it’s seems there’s only 1 repacker there. They do have triglycerol but based on the one of the paper i read recently, Glycerin has a better healing rate, followed by Diglycerin, though i can’t find much info on Triglycerol itself to determine how well it performs.  
     

  • helenhelen

    Member
    October 6, 2020 at 9:11 am

    @Zink I personally didn’t get a positive result from Floraesters K-20W - definitely nothing like the Floratech studies indicate. Moisturisation went down when I replaced part glycerin with K-20W. But my formulation is heavily reliant on glycerin for moisturisation… so any change in humectants is immediately felt. Maybe it’s better when the formulation doesn’t use as much glycerin in the first place.

  • helenhelen

    Member
    October 6, 2020 at 9:16 am

    jemolian said:

    Thanks for the confirmation @helenhelen. I’ve ordered 100ml from China since it’s seems there’s only 1 repacker there. They do have triglycerol but based on the one of the paper i read recently, Glycerin has a better healing rate, followed by Diglycerin, though i can’t find much info on Triglycerol itself to determine how well it performs.  

    I’d be interested to know if you like the diglycerin once you try it! I noticed on Incidecoder it’s in a lot of Korean and premium products - essences, toners, gel creams etc. So maybe it’s only a matter of time before it becomes more popular and widely available.

  • jemolian

    Member
    October 6, 2020 at 9:20 am

    I’ll update again. I’ll only receive it in 2 weeks since it can only be sea shipped.  

    Hope there will be a Diglycerin thread, perhaps you guys can order, repack and sell it :) 

  • Pattsi

    Member
    October 7, 2020 at 4:11 pm

    jemolian said:

    Thanks for the confirmation @helenhelen. I’ve ordered 100ml from China since it’s seems there’s only 1 repacker there. They do have triglycerol but based on the one of the paper i read recently, Glycerin has a better healing rate, followed by Diglycerin, though i can’t find much info on Triglycerol itself to determine how well it performs.  
     

    Hi @jemolian Can you share the paper about healing rate?
    I’m interested in what mechanism Glycerin have in healing other than that of Glycerin-based hydrogel wound dressing have.

    There are PPG-24-Glycereth-24, Polyglycerin-10, PEG/PPG/Polybutylene Glycol-8/5/3 Glycerin i really want to try.

  • jemolian

    Member
    October 8, 2020 at 12:41 am

    @Pattsi there are some covered by this pdf here as i found it when searching for info on triglycerol 
    http://www.scientificspectator.com/documents/personal%20care%20spectator/Glycerol%20a%20Moisturizer.pdf

    For the PEG/PPG/Polybutylene Glycol-8/5/3 Glycerin or Wilbride S-753, it’s more of a premium version of Glycerin with a less tacky skin feel, though it seems to boost the humectancy if in a higher humidity environment. It seems to have some additional interesting properties like inhibiting the absorption of lipid ingredients. 
    http://www.nof.co.jp/cosmeticlounge/english/material/pdf/wilbride_s-753d_(leaflet).pdf

    Haven’t tried the others so can’t comment too much on those. 

    I think a mix of Gylcerin, Wilbride-s753 & Diglycerin would be a good experiment. 

  • Pattsi

    Member
    October 9, 2020 at 12:10 pm

    Thank you @jemolian.
    I’m confused with Glycerol and SC Phase Transition. There are many things still for me to learn. 

    This article is good too.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6490993/
    but there’s no mention about lipid phase transition.

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