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So ….anyone can chime in.  A natural fragrance for a night cream????

Something too sweet or too refreshing does not set the table well for sleep.  I have never been a huge fan of lavender… Can a relaxing scent be created with the components being discussed?  Would love to hear thoughts on this.  Something that is not too floral…with a twist of unisex, and a splash of universality….hehehehe.

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RedCoast said:

@abierose

Black pepper and clove essential oils are my favorite! I can’t turn down a good orange and clove fragrance, It’s difficult to pick a fixative that doesn’t overwhelm the peppery notes.

Benzoin is a good fixative in general, but it can be too sweet and vanilla-y. Ylang Ylang III is excellent, but it can be on the pricey side. I haven’t tried the other distillations of Ylang Ylang yet, but I heard they can make interesting compositions.

I’m currently experimenting with juniper with pepper, and I like the results so far…

I have about killed myself trying to make an EO combination I love.  I have created tons of tolerable ones….but tolerable is always unacceptable to me.  Funny thing is….my crown jewel is a natural mosquito lotion.  It is a 13 EO blend that is just jammed full of Vanillin.  Of course EO’s have an effective life of 17-18 minutes for repelling mosquitos….so fixatives are the quintessential component.  I have found the typical fragrance fixatives all but worthless for fixing EO’s… So I have come up with a crazy cocktail of fixers….that ultimately give me several hours of protection….and as mentioned before…with the crazy load of vanillin in there….smelling like sugar cookies.   Can’t give away all my secrets….but some places to look would be….triethyl citrate…. maybe use C12 C15 alkyl benzoate as your emollient of choice….and give a look at Floratech’s hydrolyzed jojoba esters as possible helps.  My system is far more elaborate than that…but those are the cards I am willing to show.

My latest venture is a natural pain cream… I work with the finest mind in this field, and have ended up with something that has a scent mix (some of which is used to create a bit of a placebo effect) with wintergreen, mint, and clove…surprisingly not too bad.  One of the key scented constituents is paeonol, which has an uncanny ability to dominate the overall scent of the formula, even though by itself, you hardly notice the smell, but even including it at less than 1% in formula….wants to dominate with it’s minty smell.

The aforementioned products were produced only with function in mind, and the scent was a result of combining the functionals.  As far as scenting something like a facial moisturizer…I have not found the magic bullet yet, so I ended up using rose absolute with frankincense oleoresin, and phenethyl alcohol.  Quite tolerable to the masses, even those that dislike artificial rose scent.  Somehow….the frankincense adds just enough of a spice…to confuse, and lull the senses. BTW…I have found frankincense EO…to have No value at all, for any purpose, functional or scenting.  The mentor makes me produce a growing number of the ingredients I use.

I have not yet given up (on creating a dreamy EO fragrance)….I rarely give up…but sometimes take sabbaticals.  I have all the mentioned EO’s…with the exception of pepper…and you have me intrigued…and will be ordering some soon!  I have also been working at creating ginger extract with the help of my mentor, as part of the multi pronged pain cream,…and will be intrigued on experimenting with that….as one of my favorite commercial fragrance oils….uses ginger as part of the scent profile.

I have always been intrigued with the citrus EO’s…and now that I am finally working on a NIGHT cream… might have an opportunity to include them in the scent profile.  Still trying to get the barrier function where my Swiss mastermind thinks it should be.  

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Question is a little vague…. but generally I would answer that question by saying….1) use enough emulsifier, and 2) Use a co-emulsifier.

If you are looking for a good place to start, look for an emulsifier with this INCI: Glyceryl Stearate (and) PEG 100 Stearate

It is often referred to by a designation/name that includes ‘165’.  As close to bulletproof as you’ll find …. without us knowing much more about the formula.

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You haven’t really given enough information for people to evaluate.

Did you use a preservative?

What are the ingredients.  If there is a reaction occurring between ingredients, we can only help if we know what might be in there.

Were there air bubbles when you filled…and they just migrated to the surface?

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Abdullah 
 

It feels good on skin and make the skin a bit warm if used in lotion. Especially in cold weather. I was using it at %2.

Are you buying this in the US?  If so …. where?

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MarkBroussard said:

@Graillotion:

You are making this waaaay too complicated.  If you prepeare your own extract, you should add a preservative to it if you are not going to use all of it at one time, but store some for future use.
.

So, to cut to the chase:  You should preserve your self-made extract and then separately preserve your entire formula.  It is no more complicated than that.  Preservation affects the entire formula, not individual ingredients within the formula independent of the other ingredients.

Yes…I over think every aspect of my cosmetic endeavors….which probably isn’t a bad thing as far as the customer is concerned.  

Because I use a less than optimal preservation system…. (5 step hurdle + E9010), I am always looking to make sure when I add bug food, I minimize it’s impact, in anyway possible

I was trying to see if I could introduce bug food in a manner that did not increase the stress on an already less than premium preservation system.  Not saying it doesn’t work currently…it does… Just I never want to stretch it to the max…I prefer to be over protected…not…..Just protected.

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domicanica said:

Thanks for your input! How much do I add to formulas and where in the process do I add it in a body lotion and body wash?

Those are the typical use rates…I suppose I would select the rate based on the quality of water I was starting with.

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Pharma said:

I’ve been involved in a few collaborations with cosmetic industries during my postdoc in pharmacognosy & phytochemistry: The aim was to create scientific proof that the plant (not the sold extract) contains active ingredients aligning with intended marketing claims whilst the extract to be finally used had to be non-toxic and skin impermeable (else, it would have been a drug, not a cosmetic). I hated that kind of work but it’s been good $$ from which also our real research profited. This and the need to publish where money instead of need is killed my interest in further pursuing my academic career.

So sad, but so true.

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abierose said:

Graillotion said:

Tips:
Need a chelator.
Rosehip seed oil is very fragile….need an antioxidant with an oil like that.

Ahh, good to know! Are there any chelators you could recommend or that you prefer..? EDTA or any of the natural alternatives like the Dermofeel Series…?

Well…EDTA is cost effective, efficient, and readily available.  Might not be the most favored with the natural crowd.  There are several good choices if you are wanting to take that approach….just check with your suppliers.  If you are not chasing some natural badge…then stick with EDTA.

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Oh…and emulsifier inclusion rate looks low.

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Tips:
Need a chelator.
Rosehip seed oil is very fragile….need an antioxidant with an oil like that.

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First thing that jumps out….is 7% glycerine.
Feel your ingredients neat….you’ll answer your own questions.
Blend humectants…using some that are not sticky.
What are you using to lock in your moisture?
If you don’t have a strong barrier function….it will evaporate as fast as your ingredients evaporate.

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Yes…I would also like to be a test subject for your hair regrowth cream.  That is impressive how that eyebrow grew back.  I have thinning hair, and would like to test the product for this alternative use.  You can PM me on this forum.

All though I am concerned with the skin lesions that develop within 5-10 minutes of use.  Should I be concerned?

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Need to include inclusion rate to get a good answer on that.

ie: glycerol at low rates….not sticky in the end product (usually)…glycerol at higher rates….will contribute to a sticky end product.

Just feel each of your ingredients, neat…and you can answer that question your self….If it goes in sticky, and included at more than a trace level…it will begin to transfer that characteristic to the final product.

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Was tocopheryl acetate recommended by the formulator….or you chose to add that?

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Is that the FULL INCI?

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ngarayeva001 said:

@Graillotion, they probably just threw some hydrogenated vegetable oil in it.

Yes….sad to see what vendors will do to the newbies! 

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Sometimes it helps if you say your country.  Then others on the forum that live there can steer you to an emulsifier supplier.

Well…if you have a 50% oil phases (if I understood correctly)…you will certainly need a real emulsifier, and way more of it.

Is there anything a 50% oil phases product will do….that a 20% oil phase cream won’t do (and feel way better doing it)?

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Pattsi said:

Clinique used to have cyclomethicone in their old repairwear night cream but the new one doesn’t have it.

Graillotion said:

Night creams are in my understanding… thicker, more dense, a richer feel.  

Depends on your market - Korean brands tend to keep it very lightweight but have to be dewy for some period of time. 

some use it

If I remember correctly, you have an in-house influencer right? She definitely have more insight than me.

Wow….some of those formulas have quite a bit, all though…I suppose that could be near the 1% line on some of those formulas.  They do not use the liberal amounts of Isoamyl laurate, isononyl isononanoate, and Coco-Caprylate/Caprate that I am using.

My latest versions have a blend of Mont 202 and L (for lightness) and Mont 68 for richness.  So I have the exact viscosity (very much towards lite, yet strangely rich) I want, and with the addition of Hydrogenated polyisobutene, certainly got the dew level at a point that will satisfy any Korean, including the in house tester.  (Everything I make…has a touch of Aristoflex, and Carbomer, …that is just a given…when I discuss emulsifiers.)

Pharma is having me push the level on the barrier, so also added some calendula wax (below 1%), and that has been a really nice addition.

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Perry said:

I doubt you would see much benefit if you’re already using high end emollients.

Agreed….no benefits….just changes the sensory package.

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Pharma said:

At a such low inclusion rate, maybe the one point to consider, apart from an at best mild effect on spreading and finishing touch, is reduced soaping .

Soaping…hehehe…I have almost forgotten what that is.
I have found at 1%…the results were pretty dramatic.  But you know how I am.

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As said above…lacking a true emulsifer.

What are you trying to make?

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Body butter typically contains no water.
An emulsion…always contains water.
Anything that contains water must be preserved.
Butters can be added to either…all though if you get something called cherry butter….you are probably getting some yuck veggie butter with some cherry oil added….since cherry…does not make a butter.    (Better to choose an awesome real butter, and add some cherry oil to your formula.)

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I use the simplest form…

  

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In your heading….you mentioned condensation…. Chemical Matt had a good comment in another thread…which reminded me… You might consider adding some glycols.  That can only help….in so many ways.

I usually stir them in at the end of cool down…with fragrance and preservative….be warned…there is a brief…OH CRAP…moment when you think you’ve destroyed your emulsion….but don’t worry…it looks good again with 30-40 seconds of hand stirring.