Cosmetic Science Talk

Cosmetic Science discussion form. For people who want for formulate cosmetics and get advice from other formulators around the world.

Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating Suggestions on how to make this formula more moisturizing and less tacky

  • Suggestions on how to make this formula more moisturizing and less tacky

    Posted by abierose on April 10, 2021 at 4:02 am

    Hello all, I started working on a new facial lotion formula and made it for the first time today and much like a couple other variations I’ve made recently, it spreads on the skin fairly well but doesn’t seem to be that moisturizing and also feels a but tacky…anyway I  hoping you pros have a few suggestions for me before I waste any more ingredients 😉

    Here’s a screenshot of my formula in the spreadsheet file I create and keep my formulas in:

    Thanks in advance!!

    Dreamer77 replied 1 year, 9 months ago 9 Members · 49 Replies
  • 49 Replies
  • abierose

    Member
    April 10, 2021 at 4:15 am

    I should note that the “CreamMaker BLEND” I have listed is Glyceryl Stearate and Peg-100 Stearate and the LuxGlide N350 is (INCI: 

    Diheptyl Succinate (and) Capryloyl Glycerin/Sebacic Acid Copolymer) 😊

  • Graillotion

    Member
    April 10, 2021 at 5:16 am

    First thing that jumps out….is 7% glycerine.
    Feel your ingredients neat….you’ll answer your own questions.
    Blend humectants…using some that are not sticky.
    What are you using to lock in your moisture?
    If you don’t have a strong barrier function….it will evaporate as fast as your ingredients evaporate.

  • Graillotion

    Member
    April 10, 2021 at 5:34 am

    Tips:
    Need a chelator.
    Rosehip seed oil is very fragile….need an antioxidant with an oil like that.

  • Graillotion

    Member
    April 10, 2021 at 5:53 am

    Oh…and emulsifier inclusion rate looks low.

  • abierose

    Member
    April 10, 2021 at 6:25 am

    Tips:
    Need a chelator.
    Rosehip seed oil is very fragile….need an antioxidant with an oil like that.

    Ahh, good to know! Are there any chelators you could recommend or that you prefer..? EDTA or any of the natural alternatives like the Dermofeel Series…?

  • abierose

    Member
    April 10, 2021 at 6:25 am

    Oh…and emulsifier inclusion rate looks low.

    I kinda thought that too. I’ll bump that up. Thank you!!

  • Graillotion

    Member
    April 10, 2021 at 7:09 am

    abierose said:

    Tips:
    Need a chelator.
    Rosehip seed oil is very fragile….need an antioxidant with an oil like that.

    Ahh, good to know! Are there any chelators you could recommend or that you prefer..? EDTA or any of the natural alternatives like the Dermofeel Series…?

    Well…EDTA is cost effective, efficient, and readily available.  Might not be the most favored with the natural crowd.  There are several good choices if you are wanting to take that approach….just check with your suppliers.  If you are not chasing some natural badge…then stick with EDTA.

  • Pharma

    Member
    April 10, 2021 at 5:49 pm


    What are you using to lock in your moisture?
    If you don’t have a strong barrier function….it will evaporate as fast as your ingredients evaporate.

    LuxGlide N350 might do exactly that. I wonder if theory does translate to reality here…

  • Anca_Formulator

    Member
    April 24, 2021 at 6:45 pm

    What everyone above suggested. Also IMHO Cetearyl Alcohol doesn’t have the nices skin feel, it’s got some waxiness. Maybe try Cetyl Alcohol instead. Speaking of locking in moisture I would also including a more lubricious, slow absorbing oil, such as avocado for example. 

  • ggpetrov

    Member
    April 24, 2021 at 7:41 pm

    abierose said:

    Oh…and emulsifier inclusion rate looks low.

    I kinda thought that too. I’ll bump that up. Thank you!!

    I find the Glyceryl stearate & PEG 100 stearate gives a sticky and waxy emulsions. Despite the fact that your formula contains too much glycerine, maybe you should change the emulsifier too. I don’t think the Cetearyl alcohol has a waxy feeling, but it has a great stabilizing properties.

  • abierose

    Member
    April 25, 2021 at 6:32 am

    ggpetrov said:

    abierose said:

    Oh…and emulsifier inclusion rate looks low.

    I kinda thought that too. I’ll bump that up. Thank you!!

    I find the Glyceryl stearate & PEG 100 stearate gives a sticky and waxy emulsions. Despite the fact that your formula contains too much glycerine, maybe you should change the emulsifier too. I don’t think the Cetearyl alcohol has a waxy feeling, but it has a great stabilizing properties.

    Thank you! I’ve actually changed the formula IMMENSELY thanks to everyone’s feedback and some awesome tips from @Graillotion 😁 I have attached the the latest formula. I like it so much better!! However I do feel it’s still missing something…I love the texture and feel…but it does tend to have a dry yet dewey feel that stays on the face for a while after application…I don’t know  I guess it’s missing that WOW factor…any feedback on the new formula would be much appreciated!

  • Abdullah

    Member
    April 25, 2021 at 10:47 am

    For moisturization add %20 glycerin and %5 petrolatum. This works better than anything else you can compare to. The manage the aesthetics.

  • Graillotion

    Member
    April 25, 2021 at 6:30 pm

    Well…I pretty much have unlimited time and budget when I formulate, ….but here are my take-aways I have come away with.  Every ingredient counts.  Try as many ingredients in each segment as possible…each will have its own nuance.  Look at the best formulas in the segment…and deduce what they did, and why each component was included, and what it did for the formula.  The most difficult aspect is the final texture.  In the last cream I made….it took 41 generations…I had everything nailed by version 3….except texture, that took the other 38 generations.

    1) Every ingredient counts….. Lets look at something like fatty alcohol….there are lots of choices…the only way you will know which one to choose…is make your formula with each (common) fatty alcohol, that being the only ingredient changed…then evaluate the formula.  The texture each will provide will be unique, and this is where it gets interesting…what feels good to one person, might not feel good to the next.  So formulators on this site can not tell you which one feels best….only which one feels best to them!  So me as an example… I like Cetyl esters best, cetyl alcohol 2nd best, and also use MM.  So that is only what feels best to ME…. not what will make your product feel the best to you.  I also tend to use ingredients at low level…as I think too much of anything…lends too much of its personality to the final product….as an example….if I have something that needs a lot of fatty alcohol to thicken…rather than go 3 or 4% of one…I will almost always blend two…to get the desired thickness….no science here….just preference.

    As far as wow factor….in my opinion… you are lacking the super duper lite weight emollients…. I think you have read on this forum…what people are using in that regard….the premium products…are using lots of that….like in the 10% range.  I of course use a blend…again to keep things from getting monolithic, or as you may have read….a cascading emolliency.  I guess the simplest example of lite weight emollients would be….shake them….they should feel thinner than water.  This again is an area….where no one can tell you what feels best…as that again will be personal preference.  I keep about 6 of these on hand….and all have their own nuances….things like skin softening…shine…speed of absorption…etc..  So you use them where they fit…example…night cream….speed of absorption, you might not want lightening fast…shine….more is ok….etc.  I also evaluate comedogenic ratings on those…one of my fav’s I do not use in face creams….but pile it on….for body and hand.

    Finally….wow factor…. I found with the liquid ingredients…I could not quite get there.  Do not underestimate the power of the polymeric emulsifiers, and carbomer.  There is immense differences in one’s that people seem to toss around as….interchangeable.  Trust me…. NOoooooooooooo.

    Look at specialty ingredients…like Polymethylsilsesquioxane…. read everything you can on that one, or similar products.

    But my final take away will always be….texture will always be personal opinion… I send samples to people around the globe on this forum….and I just giggle…at how different each person’s perception is.  What I might consider near failure…they might say is one of the best things they have ever felt.

    Last but not least….create more versions of your product than you ever imagined….take notes…learn…and improve.  Technique …. technique…technique… get the right equipment…and follow the mfg (not reseller) instructions.

  • abierose

    Member
    April 25, 2021 at 8:19 pm

    Well…I pretty much have unlimited time and budget when I formulate, ….but here are my take-aways I have come away with.  Every ingredient counts.  Try as many ingredients in each segment as possible…each will have its own nuance.  Look at the best formulas in the segment…and deduce what they did, and why each component was included, and what it did for the formula.  The most difficult aspect is the final texture.  In the last cream I made….it took 41 generations…I had everything nailed by version 3….except texture, that took the other 38 generations.

    1) Every ingredient counts….. Lets look at something like fatty alcohol….there are lots of choices…the only way you will know which one to choose…is make your formula with each (common) fatty alcohol, that being the only ingredient changed…then evaluate the formula.  The texture each will provide will be unique, and this is where it gets interesting…what feels good to one person, might not feel good to the next.  So formulators on this site can not tell you which one feels best….only which one feels best to them!  So me as an example… I like Cetyl esters best, cetyl alcohol 2nd best, and also use MM.  So that is only what feels best to ME…. not what will make your product feel the best to you.  I also tend to use ingredients at low level…as I think too much of anything…lends too much of its personality to the final product….as an example….if I have something that needs a lot of fatty alcohol to thicken…rather than go 3 or 4% of one…I will almost always blend two…to get the desired thickness….no science here….just preference.

    As far as wow factor….in my opinion… you are lacking the super duper lite weight emollients…. I think you have read on this forum…what people are using in that regard….the premium products…are using lots of that….like in the 10% range.  I of course use a blend…again to keep things from getting monolithic, or as you may have read….a cascading emolliency.  I guess the simplest example of lite weight emollients would be….shake them….they should feel thinner than water.  This again is an area….where no one can tell you what feels best…as that again will be personal preference.  I keep about 6 of these on hand….and all have their own nuances….things like skin softening…shine…speed of absorption…etc..  So you use them where they fit…example…night cream….speed of absorption, you might not want lightening fast…shine….more is ok….etc.  I also evaluate comedogenic ratings on those…one of my fav’s I do not use in face creams….but pile it on….for body and hand.

    Finally….wow factor…. I found with the liquid ingredients…I could not quite get there.  Do not underestimate the power of the polymeric emulsifiers, and carbomer.  There is immense differences in one’s that people seem to toss around as….interchangeable.  Trust me…. NOoooooooooooo.

    Look at specialty ingredients…like Polymethylsilsesquioxane…. read everything you can on that one, or similar products.

    But my final take away will always be….texture will always be personal opinion… I send samples to people around the globe on this forum….and I just giggle…at how different each person’s perception is.  What I might consider near failure…they might say is one of the best things they have ever felt.

    Last but not least….create more versions of your product than you ever imagined….take notes…learn…and improve.  Technique …. technique…technique… get the right equipment…and follow the mfg (not reseller) instructions.

    Thanks @Graillotion! Once again you’ve given me awesome feedback and a lot of homework 😁 I appreciate every bit of it! 

    I too have wanted to mix certain ingredient types like fatty alcohols…but in the past I have gotten feedback from others on the forum that I don’t need more than one of each ingredient…so I’ll start mixing ingredients like fatty alcohols…funny because I was just researching some others as I am getting a bit tired of the 3 common ones that are used all the time 😆 

    Anyway, thanks again! And back to the drawing board for me but at least I feel I have a better place to start, or continue, now 😉

  • Graillotion

    Member
    April 25, 2021 at 9:22 pm

    abierose said:

    I too have wanted to mix certain ingredient types like fatty alcohols…but in the past I have gotten feedback from others on the forum that I don’t need more than one of each ingredient…so I’ll start mixing ingredients like fatty alcohols…funny because I was just researching some others as I am getting a bit tired of the 3 common ones that are used all the time 😆 

    Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater… :)  There is a reason why Cetyl alcohol is so prevalent. 

    As you are aware …. blending is more common place than you can imagine…as some like the aforementioned cetearyl are already a blend of cetyl and stearyl alcohols.  Also many emulsifiers contain a fatty alcohol as a component.

    Some formulators will select a fatty alcohol that they feel best strengthens their emulsion.  I prefer to strengthen my emulsion other ways, and let the fatty alcohol selection be more based to the sensory experience it brings.

    And yes….simplicity is a virtue, but it can also be a function of industry, which will compromise a texture (or tiny nuances they believe the consumer cannot detect) for ease of production, and lower overhead.

    BTW: Cetyl esters does not thicken as efficiently as some of the others, so generally have to increase the amount used a little.

  • abierose

    Member
    April 26, 2021 at 1:36 am

    Is Hemisqualane considered a super lightweight emollient..? Or are you referring more to CCT and Alkyl Benzoate?

  • abierose

    Member
    April 26, 2021 at 1:39 am

    @ggpetrov I agree about the feel of cetearyl alcohol and it not having a waxy feeling. 100% agree about the Glycerin. I’m fairly new to the 165 emulsifier…what would you suggest using? Thank you!

  • Graillotion

    Member
    April 26, 2021 at 2:46 am

    abierose said:

    Is Hemisqualane considered a super lightweight emollient..? Or are you referring more to CCT and Alkyl Benzoate?

    Yes… C12-15 alkyl benzoate is one of the ones I keep on hand..  Some of the others are IPM (watch the comedogenic rating), Coco-Caprylate/Caprate, Isoamyl laurate (my personal favorite), Hydrogenated Ethylhexyl Olivate with Hydrogenated Olive Oil Unsaponifiables, and Ethylhexyl palmitate (Octyl Palmitate) (hand and body on the last one).

    Sometimes one is forced to select your lite emollients…based on availability.

    And I have found that cyclomethicone puts a nice finishing touch on things.

  • RedCoast

    Member
    April 26, 2021 at 6:48 am
    @abierose if you can, you should try dicaprylyl ether, dicaprylyl carbonate, or neopentyl glycol diheptanoate. They’re very light and silky! I think you should get them if possible, if only to help you experiment with heavier creams and textures. Like Graillotion said, emollients are a very personal thing… some people like drier and silkier emollients than others (whereas some people like creamier ones), even if they have the same skin type.
    You know, it’s like exploring perfume notes… infinite number of combinations, but there certain combinations you’ll favor more than others! ;)
    @Graillotion, ditto on the isoamyl laurate! It makes an awesome emollient for body butters! :smiley:
  • abierose

    Member
    April 26, 2021 at 5:59 pm

    RedCoast said:

    @abierose if you can, you should try dicaprylyl ether, dicaprylyl carbonate, or neopentyl glycol diheptanoate. They’re very light and silky! I think you should get them if possible, if only to help you experiment with heavier creams and textures. Like Graillotion said, emollients are a very personal thing… some people like drier and silkier emollients than others (whereas some people like creamier ones), even if they have the same skin type.
    You know, it’s like exploring perfume notes… infinite number of combinations, but there certain combinations you’ll favor more than others! ;)
    @Graillotion, ditto on the isoamyl laurate! It makes an awesome emollient for body butters! :smiley:

    @RedCoast thank you! I love needing to buy more ingredients! I used to buy clothes….now I buy cosmetic ingredients 😆

  • Graillotion

    Member
    April 26, 2021 at 7:27 pm

    RedCoast said:

     try dicaprylyl ether, dicaprylyl carbonate, or neopentyl glycol diheptanoate. They’re very light and silky! 

    Are these available from repackers in the US…I do not recall seeing them?

  • ggpetrov

    Member
    April 26, 2021 at 8:07 pm

    abierose said:

    @ggpetrov I agree about the feel of cetearyl alcohol and it not having a waxy feeling. 100% agree about the Glycerin. I’m fairly new to the 165 emulsifier…what would you suggest using? Thank you!

    Well, I see your new formula is a big mess. First you mix the PQ 7 - which is cationic, with the Glyceryl stearate citrate - which is anionic. Also I see the Glyceryl stearate & PEG 100 is still present in the new formula. Why is that? Too much Cetearyl alcohol - I guess! Why you put the Allantoin at the cool down phase? Also, why you are need of so much oils and emolients? Why your formula doesn’t contain any polymeric thickeners? Also the percentages are totally messed up.

  • abierose

    Member
    April 26, 2021 at 8:41 pm

    ggpetrov said:

    abierose said:

    @ggpetrov I agree about the feel of cetearyl alcohol and it not having a waxy feeling. 100% agree about the Glycerin. I’m fairly new to the 165 emulsifier…what would you suggest using? Thank you!

    Well, I see your new formula is a big mess. First you mix the PQ 7 - which is cationic, with the Glyceryl stearate citrate - which is anionic. Also I see the Glyceryl stearate & PEG 100 is still present in the new formula. Why is that? Too much Cetearyl alcohol - I guess! Why you put the Allantoin at the cool down phase? Also, why you are need of so much oils and emolients? Why your formula doesn’t contain any polymeric thickeners? Also the percentages are totally messed up.

    Thank you for your feedback. What should I expect to see when using pq7 and the gsc emulsifier together in the same formula? I haven’t had any issues with stability or anything as of yet and it is plenty thick enough…the Allantoin I have in the cool down ingredients to avoid possible crystallization from cooling too quickly…is this not accurate? Is there any reason not to have it in cool down? What about the percentages in my formula…can you be more specific? Thank you!

  • Graillotion

    Member
    April 26, 2021 at 9:18 pm

    The polymerics…will enhance the texture….those are things like Aristoflex AVC, Sepinov EMT 10…etc.

  • Graillotion

    Member
    April 26, 2021 at 9:40 pm

    Sometime incompatibilities take weeks if not months to show themselves.  Since I have started…I take a small sample of every formula I produce (every experiment, every batch), and place it in a small clear jar/bottle, with a little extra head space (just to make things worse), in a sunny window….and label it.  I call it my torture test…everything you don’t want for your cosmetic creation.

    What it does do…is speed up the process of oxidation, incompatible ingredients and stress, revealing issues far quicker.  Numerous times this very simply protocol has saved me from blunders, or has allowed me to make corrections before something got too far along.  (If you are near completion of a formula….give it a couple rounds in the freezer, then back to the window…etc…etc.)

    When I started… I got samples of just about every know ‘natural’ emulsifier I could get my hands on….and almost none of them passed this test + time, and why my arsenal of emulsifiers is pretty small.

Page 1 of 2