Graillotion
Forum Replies Created
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Can you post a picture…. and formula?
Maybe the scuff marks….are bloom?
If it is bloom….take a look at Chemical Matt’s hack…in the following link:
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Politicians…are lazy-a$$ bast@rds…. so that means….some lobbyist pushed this through…… Who was that?
Did you mean….something like this @PhilGeis ?
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Pharma said:350 cSt dimethicone has a molecular weight in the range of 13’000-15’000 g/mol depending on the manufacturer (some sources say half that number). What I found is, that 27 kDa corresponds to 1000 cSt dimethicone… it’s a mess…300 g/mol is slightly above the molecular weight of the tetramer which has a viscosity of ~1.5 cSt.Viscosity of polymers usually varies greatyl because they aren’t pure but blends of different chain lengths. Dimeticones are sometimes also branched and not exclusively linear, contain additional siloxane moieties, or may be endcapped etc. which all affects viscosity.Bottom line is, dimethicone 350 contains approximately 200 monomers and dimethicone chain length doesn’t have a linear correlation with viscosity. If memory serves me right, dimeticones above ~6 cSt aren’t volatile and can be added to the hot phase without any losses.
Yes…. 5 and 6…is the dividing line.
(Hence why they sell both….with such similar cSt.) -
MarkBroussard said:It would have made more sense to just require a Safety Assessment ingredient review by a qualified Safety Assessor as is done in the EU. But, I guess that would have just made it all too clear as to what exactly was required.
That is EXACTLY what I was hoping for. I am TOTALLY not the guy that wants government control of everything…actually the opposite. However…after looking at INCI’s on ETSY products…and throwing up a little bit in my mouth….something must be done.
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PhilGeis said:Part s that do not appl to < 1 mill annually - registration and formal GMP’s. FDA will develop small business GMP’s.
Adverse event record keeping, documented safety assessment and labeling change are for everyone.
I was so hoping for some barrier to entry, for the incompetent!
What exactly is: documented safety assessment?
Is that the barrier I am hoping for?
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Perry said:I think this only applies to sellers of $1 million a year or more, but I haven’t read the legislation.
Thank you….and BUMMER!
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GeorgeBenson said:When you say D5 what are you referring to exactly? I’ve heard you mention it before but I see many different results when i search it on the ol’ prospector…
Cyclomethicone / cyclopentasiloxane. D5 is just quicker to write/type.
(D5), contains five repeating units of silicon (Si) and oxygen (O) atoms in a closed (cyclic) loop.
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Might just be the perfect emulsifier for an Exxon Valdez type night cream!
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I think every prudent lipid producer/marketer….will look at the cosmetic industry as an outlet for excess inventory. What scenario could be better….than selling off your excess material at 2-4 times the market price?
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GeorgeBenson said:Got it, i can’t wait.
Are there any tricks for getting it to emulsify other than putting it in the heated oil phase and if needed, adding more emulsifier?
Not aware of any tricks. Some emulsifiers do a better job with silicone than others…but assuming the use rate you will use….probably not going to be an issue.
In my deo….where I am in that 8-10% range of ‘cones’, I have to pay a little more attention (mainly D5).
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I am neither a professional nor a chemist, just a retired guy…living my dream…. but I started making things for a couple of reasons:
1) First ever project was a natural mosquito repelling lotion. I did this because I could not find a product in that category that worked at my level of expectation. I was able to succeed with two exceptions. The scent was too strong for commercial value….and the ingredient that made it ultimately work….created rampant oxidation, also rendering in commercially unviable.
2) When I started asking my ‘Out of my league’ Korean wife…the cost of some of her face creams…most of which were North of $300…. I said…I can do that for $10…and equal or exceed their performance.
3) I am lucky to currently not be burdened with chronic pain, but many around me are, so since I had the resources of the greatest mind in the field, I made a pain cream for those that I care about. I call pain….’A fickle Bi#ch’, meaning for some people, they will crawl across broken glass for this cream…and for others, it is like many other products that do not work for them. Just depends on their pain source/type. Worst case scenario….works wonders on mosquito bites and fire ant bites.
4) I recently made the first product for myself. I do not have sensitive skin, with one exception….my armpits. I have been unable to use commercial deodorants other than in aerosol versions. As I wanted a deo that worked longer, didn’t stain, and did not irritate, and again had access to several of the most brilliant minds in the field…. I took on that challenge and created an emulsified cream deo. It came out better than I could have ever imagined. I consider it my crowning achievement. A ‘use anywhere’ deo…that last for up to 72 hours for some people (me…I get about 30….
)Aloha.
The woman….does a little drawing.
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Have at it. Not volatile.
As this grasshopper was taught….your silicones are the most difficult ingredient to emulsify (with typical emulsifiers you are using), so you want them in the process…..as early as possible. (Oil phase of course.)
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I like the other two you mentioned better. To me…68 feels more unctuous. So if that is your goal….have at it.
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Berry_8 said:Graillotion said:Why are you adjusting at the end…other that a final look/tweak?
Do you think I could just add a little more EMT 10 instead of GSC or SSG? I don’t believe I have those on hand right now.
No.
Even though considered anionic….not the same effect. Same with the anionic gums.
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Why are you adjusting at the end…other that a final look/tweak? What happened to adjust as you go, which eliminates the ’emulsifier shock’?
Once your water phase is complete….get it close (you may not need further adjustment…but double check).
You can always try lactic….but shocking your emulsion at the end…is never good.
You might consider a little anionic…like GSC or SSG to strengthen the emulsion. I have been working on one recently…and it is touch as nails… PG-6-DS / sucrose esters-stearate / GMS and SSG.
You can also try watering down your acid….where you use twice as much…but not as shocking of an entry. But….I suspect you should build a stronger emulsion.
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ketchito said:@banyaboriforever Without knowing your formula it’s very hard to give a good solution. Are you sure those are water droplets? Any chance that might have been condensation?
….or squalane.
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What is the purpose of the stick?
Here is what one ingredient seller said about it:
Dicalcium Phosphate Anhydrous is supplied as a white powder. It can be used as an abrasive and opacifying agent in cosmetic products.
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Pattsi said:Graillotion said:
I tried it, lovely silky dry skin feel, I loved it, a little expensive, but with my limited formulating skill I couldn’t make a stable emulsion.
I tried it in a complicated deo formula….and I also could not get it to work. I did get a PG-6-DS with a couple of friends…that worked nicely plugged into the same formula.
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patti said:Graillotion said:
Awesome! Thank you very much ????
Just so you know… 0-500 grams has the same set shipping fee…. so if you order super small….the shipping will kill you. As you move above 500 grams…the increase is very marginal.
Aloha.
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To me….mediocre….means just average. Not bad, but not a products that causes your jaw to drop when you try it.
If you buy 30 (commercial) products in the same segment, you will get about 5 that are just simply bad. The next 22-24….those are the average/mediocre. These are products that might have been stunning products at the concept phase, but by the time the costing chemist got done with them, they slid into mediocrity. Not saying they are bad…they function as advertised and are safe, but you as the consumer…do not run out of the house with the product held over your head, telling the neighbors about it. At the far end of the spectrum, there might be one or two products in the group, that clearly set themselves apart from the balance of the group. They perform better, smell better, and provide the best perception of value. These are the products that you insist your friends try.
Working in the structure of a large company where you do not make all the decisions, can often quell the tiny nuances that take you from average to exceptional, where cost and manufacturing ease are the rulers of the day. In those structures, maybe the emollient that would have made that slight difference (as example Dicaprylyl carbonate vs IPM), but your product was forced to use the product that was already in-house, vs adding a new SKU to the companies inventory. Or using a product that requires time (hydration) vs one that does not…for flow in production. There are so many interchangeable parts, that will eventually change the product, from formulation table ‘gold’ to production line mediocrity.
So nothing wrong with mediocre products, they just do not stand out beyond the aura the marketing market can create?
Aloha.
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I found the easiest way…was to use GLDA.
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GeorgeBenson said:@Graillotion i did not know that about behenyl
alcohol, now i will definitely experiment with that as a spearate ingredient when using other emulsifiers.Yes…anywhere you use cetyl or cetearyl…replace with same amount of behenyl…and formula is just better feeling. Now memba…I like things dry and powdery….so this all goes back to….what you personally like.
With the longer carbon chain…it should also enhance about everything….melt point…stability…etc.. Also generally palm free tag goes on it.
Only down side… more $$$
But FSS has a 20% sale going for the next few days. Grab some.