Graillotion
Forum Replies Created
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Ok…. that mommy bloggerism…just got WAY topped for the month… Check out this one (see bold):
You got me (mostly thinking and planning, but a modest beginning, as well) into DIY and, in the process, I’ve come across articles about DMAE. It seems one must be extremely aware how much they use (recommended not more than 1%) and what other ingredients it is mixed with. If uncertain, anyone attempting a DIY project including DMAE should contact a professional; such as Lotioncrafters.
OMG…. I can’t stop laughing.
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I think EDTA and GLDA have the same number of negative charges, unlike something like sodium phytate. I guess the concern would be precipitants…and if they form, which can be verified with testing.
The way I understood chelates and cationics from my mentor was….use the ones with the fewest negative charges…and use them at very very low rates.
Here is a snippet from him…when we were hashing through a formula with Varisoft Eq:
Phytic acid has up to 12 negative charges which is three times that of TSGD or EDTA. It’s a cationics nightmare. The others may actually work because they’re added in traces compared to the cationic ingredient. From a chemistry perspective, it’s unlikely that a TSGD-Varisoft complex forms which precipitates. Most likely, there will be electrostatic interactions between the two but nothing which you could feel or see, just the kind which potentially reduces long-term stability.
He leaned towards using GLDA at ultra low rates.
Good luck.
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Incomplete formula… please list all ingredients, including the preservative.
First guess would be the X-gum….as it is often the guilty party. .5% is a lot.
Second guesses would be way too much of HA and PGA. Maybe look at some professional formulas for some guidance on use levels. Please do not take the sellers use rates…as they are only trying to move product.
Too much Aloe, can also have this effect. Cut all above mentions by at least 50%…and see if you have a better product.
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Your pH adjustment is typically measured as Q.S…. Quantum satis.
This means you use enough to hit the targeted pH. It is typically not part of the calculation to 100%…unless it was a formula that was using lots of acid for another purpose. But for simple adjustment…it is not a calculation usually. Just put your meter in….and adjust till you get where you need to be.
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I think the answer to your question lies in the fact that our skin is very resilient. We abuse it in every way….exposure to low humidity with heated and air conditioned homes, and it adapts…. we abuse it with high pH products likes soap, and it immediately adapts and starts to lower the pH back to were it is comfortable. Almost whatever we throw at our skin….it overcomes to some degree. In no way shape or form…does the skin stay at the higher pH that soaps takes it to….it immediately uses all its resources to return to the correct acidic pH.
I think you will find many that are deeply entrenched in skin care….do not use high pH soaps for this very reason.
Our skin has something called an ‘acid mantle’ which is our first and foremost barrier to the world. This might be a starting point for your journey and study of skin. Yes, skin can recover from being soaped….but why? There are many theories, and just as many opinions, so you will always be able to find the crowd that believes in your theory, if you want folks to sing ‘Kum ba yah’ with you on soap….just hang on a soaping site. 🙂
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Have you tried a knock-out….removing the Aloe?
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Niacinamide is one of the most studied of the cosmetic ingredients and is one of the few that most will staunchly stand behind. However, everyone’s skin is different. A well-studied ingredient can still irritate a certain skin type, so work your way into it.
I would suggest a use rate of 2% to start with. Typically, since most skin is quite tolerant to it, the manufacturers will race each other to max levels….that give no additional benefit beyond claim.
Here is some reading material:
Formulating with Niacinamide - Prospector Knowledge Center (ulprospector.com)
Slide Show: 9 Benefits of Niacinamide (ulprospector.com)
Niacinamide, A High-Value Added, Multifaceted Cosmetic Active (ulprospector.com)
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Sounds like you order from the US, now and then:
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I am no expert!!!!!! … but this one kinda reminds me of a lot of the lore one sees on the net on various topics. Is citric acid a chelate…Yes. Is it your best option, most of the time… No. But people just hear that it is a chelate….and that is good enough for them…..details….who cares about those. ????
The reason EDTA or GLDA gets used in its place professionally, is they are more effective across a range of pH’s and against a wide slate of metals. Does citric match this…..generally no.
It is my understanding that to be highly effective, it needs to have a very specific molar ratio. All this tweaking of ratios…and your target pH will be all over the board.
Use edta or GLDA….and Done!
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Are Citric Acid-Iron II Complexes True Chelates or Just Physical Mixtures and How to Prove This?
Although mineral chelates are widely produced to be used as food fortifiers, the proof that these complexes are chelates is still missing. In our present work, iron II complexes using citric acid in different ratios are produced, and the occurrence … Continue reading
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Just a source of polysaccharides…. of which there are many sources…. But people like the trendy, marketable name.
Search ‘beta glucans’ …. and you’ll have your answer.
In the past it was typically sourced from oats….and why you saw so much ‘oat’ this and that….in formulas.
Good luck.
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Let me toss part of this topic to Dr Geis….or others…. Over the years, Dr Geis has instilled in me the fear of God….and so I have avoided anything with oat solids. Beta Glucans have always intrigued me though. (Granted this fear has kept me from studying it extensively….as can be concluded by my above, simple question). Do they bring with them….the bug food potential of say….colloidal oats? I would have to assume less…. just wondering how much less….if any? Asked another way….what it the big draw (portion) of the oat….that bugs want to feast on?
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Not only has a re-packer never been able to answer a question for me…. I can’t even get them to understand the question, as science is so foreign to them. They are not even aware of the arena the question comes from. ????
One time I got ahold of the owner….after the customer care jockeys kept telling me there GMS was 100% monostearate, (which of course it wasn’t, it was 40%) and the owner was able to tell be the mono content. The balance of the team had never even heard of di and tri stearates.
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Here is a sample formula, so you can see inclusion rates.
Good Luck…over and out.
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This formula….is so…. far from standard… I think you should just go back to the drawing board.
What are you trying make? A moisturizing cream? Let me know what you are trying to make…and I paste a couple of formulas…just to give you some guidelines.
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Do you find this formula drying (say after an hour), and this is why you are rubbing the skin…and finding the pilling?
If you drop the aloe completely….a whole new world opens up to you…. Look at Aristoflex AVC. You can get that at LotionCrafters…if you live in the USA. (Dropping all the aloe…would be a wonderful thing….as it is mostly over-hyped bug food.)
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Look at the use rate of PGA! Looks a little like you used mommy blogger sites for a reference? HA would have similar use rates.
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When you said all above….that would be the X-gum, HA, PGA and aloe.
Yes, replace with water.
At some point…you’ll may have to find an alternate thickener…as the above will reduce viscosity.
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Hehehe….Yes…just for a knock out experiment, start with the 50% reduction of the jelly like materials….this will at least give you an idea if you are headed in the right direction.
Don’t ask me more….as I would delete all aloe….and put HA and PGA down to claim levels. ????
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” There is peer-reviewed scientific literature that demonstrates that skin can recover quickly from high-pH soap (9.5 pH).”
I believe that is what I said…but when I read this research…I was always appalled at HOW LONG it took to auto-correct. I guess quickly is an arbitrary term.
Good thing I don’t sell soap….so I can choose as I see fit. (20 years and counting….)
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I hear you saying, all the big brands that are using a chelate….must be using some sort of pond water?
Last time I checked, the chelate was a fundamental instrument against pathogens. 🙂
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EDTA is king. GLDA is best alternative if chasing the bio-degradable crowd.
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Did you ever send an emulsion off for PET? Still curious to see the results.
Aloha.
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Thank you for the files.
Have you used BG’s? The word ‘film former’ always puts a little trepidation into my heart, as I want moisturizers that feel like they are not there. When you add BG….does it add any feel to the product….good, bad or otherwise?
Did you notice any enhanced moisturization compared with the base vehicle?
Aloha, and Happy New Year. @jemolian
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It is only being sold as a cosmetic ingredient, @PhilGeis
My question about ‘food grade’ was only a query into whether it would have tighter tolerances, than the more lax ‘cosmetic’ grade.
I did think that was leaving a lot on the shoulders of the preservation system.
Aloha.