[evchem2]

@ketchito is right on, especially for iota carrageenan- divalents will work best and you can usually use a bit less than the monovalents which will help reduce chance of instability (maybe try 0.1-0.2% CaCl2 or MgSO4?). Since you’re making an o/w system, I would suggest adding those salts after forming the emulsion (https://www.ulprospector.com/knowledge/11641/pcc-tips-and-tricks-guaranteed-to-improve-the-your-formulations-part-one/) .

Do you know which type of carrageenan you are using?

ulprospector.com

Tips and Tricks Guaranteed to Improve Your Formulations (Part One)

Water Based Thickeners The easiest way to add xanthan gum to the water phase of your formulations is to first disperse the gum into a water-miscible solven

[evchem2]

I am not well-versed in either hot-fill or color cosmetics, but I had a couple thoughts:

1. Are the glass containers warmed at all before being filled with product? Could you run them through a heat tunnel so they are not quite as cool when being filled? Maybe less of a temperature shock going from 63C to RT containers would help.

2. Are you selling in the US market? If yes, I would be very careful because your botanical extract (from Campo?) is not an approved colorant for cosmetics, let alone those in contact with the mouth. I would make very sure you have appropriate safety data for this formula.

[evchem2]

If you have only 1% glycol, I would stick to using <0.3% xanthan gum if you keep the slurry method- but if you’re seeing clumping then something isn’t working with the current process. The ‘gloopiness’ is characteristic of this gum, certain grades from specific suppliers can offer some improvement on that. Air bubbles are also normal, xanthan provides viscosity and suspension- to limit their incorporation try to keep your mixing blade a bit off-center and monitor your mixing speed (watch if you are pulling air into the vortex).

ChemicalMatt’s method will also work, I recommend slurry method when I don’t know the processing equipment capability. The end goal is uniform product not just within one batch but lot to lot, and if your slurry is thick and difficult to incorporate on small scale it might also be an issue for scale-up, so use whatever method gives you best results.

[evchem2]

If you have any kind of glycols in your formulation (glycerin, propanediol, etc), you can premix the xanthan gum in that instead (at least a 3:1 ratio glycol: gum is advised) and add that into the water phase instead.

[evchem2]

Maybe include a lip-safe fixative- more ‘premium’ fragrances may already include those. I think triethyl citrate or dipropylene glycol should work, if you search those in this forum you’ll see some guidance

[evchem2]

The LV is the more sensitive spring, it has a lower range of viscosity it can measure. The RV is less sensitive and so it generally works better for thicker samples (it’s about 10x less sensitive if I understand the Brookfield manual correctly)

Brookfield has some decent documentation on their equipment- if this link doesn’t work just google ‘More solutions to sticky problems’ https://www.brookfieldengineering.com/-/media/ametekbrookfield/tech%20sheets/more%20solutions%202017.pdf?la=en

[evchem2]

Generally adding salt at the end of the process is best, that way in scale up you can work at lower viscosity as long as possible (less energy to mix, less risk of air entrapment), and all your other ingredients will already be present and accounted for. And it’s always good practice to create a salt curve for your specific formula.

[evchem2]

Not a color cosmetic chemist but here are some ideas:

-Can you find some commercial benchmark products and subject them to the lumisizer test alongside your formulations? Maybe some selected by the client and others from large brands in the category (ex Clinique, Fenty, Maybelline, Covergirl in the US) to see if they also hold up under the same conditions. If nothing passes that test… w/o are notoriously hard to stabilize, I don’t know if that kind of test is common for these kind of products.

- Is w/o necessary or can you make something anhydrous?

[evchem2]

Is your water deionized? Salt content might be creating some streaks. Certain non-ionic surfactants are also recommended for window cleaners (ex Tomadol 901). What pH is your current formulation at?

[evchem2]

Xanthan, Ultrez 20, Alginate will not work, they will interact with the Al which is positively charged. HEC you might be able to have some success, please share how you have incorporated that polymer and what specific brand you are using. You can also try HP guar

I should also mention that if you are in the US, anti-perspirant is an OTC and so I wouldn’t recommend making this as a beginner, and certainly not for anything other than personal use.

[evchem2]

How do you incorporate the Amaze XT ( when in process, how long do you mix)?

[evchem2]

TEA dodecylbenzene sulfonate is an anionic detergent, I would not expect this to provide conditioning benefits. Can you remove this and try again?

[evchem2]

What surfactants are you currently using and are you using any polymers?

[evchem2]

It would sink

[evchem2]

Does this happen if you leave out menthol?

[evchem2]

Remove the glycerin and see if your foam improves at all, there’s no real benefit to including it in wash-off and it can diminish foam. Abdullah’s recommendation of 3:1 ASM is good and should help you on cost a little (assuming your CAPB is more expensive than SLES). Some polymers can help with foam stability as well (HPMC comes to mind first), but not sure you want to include them as they would increase cost/ processing.

[evchem2]

Increasing xanthan gum makes sense- 0.1% is not enough to really contribute, and it may not hydrate as fully in a nut-milk based system. I hope this is for personal use only?

[evchem2]

Would the polyquats provide enough suspension/ viscosity? and also potentially form coacervates that would entrap the silicones and further stabilize?

[evchem2]

@chemicalmatt thank you! That’s wild, I didn’t include that I had 3% glycerin in the system (the only other component) because I assumed it would be negligible…I recall a saying about assumptions that seems relevant. Any idea the reasoning behind the incompatibility?

Thanks for the tip about the borate, not sure how client will feel about it but good to have in the toolbox

[evchem2]

Would this be true for any of the organic acids to some extent?

[evchem2]

@Ron_93 I’d have to know more about what you included/ how it was prepared. Did you use a retarder/ extender? Without the extender you may see some lumping from poor dispersion of the alginate, without the retarder you may see lumping from premature gel formation

[evchem2]

Xanthan should work in presence of 4% glycolic, just slurry it with glycerin and add it in after water (and chelator if using). Whether you like the sensory/appearance or not is another question, but to speed up ‘absorption’ you could add small amount of ethanol, or try adding some starch or silica- but those options will also modify feel

[evchem2]

You could use a refatting agent like Glyceryl oleate, Polyglyceryl-3 Caprate, or Peg-7 Glyceryl Cocoate

[evchem2]

Can you clarify what you mean by ‘solid detergency’?

[evchem2]

Adding polymer like xanthan or HPMC can help reduce drainage and might give the foam a ‘stiffer’ look by leaking water more slowly?