evchem2
Forum Replies Created
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Not a color cosmetic chemist but here are some ideas:
-Can you find some commercial benchmark products and subject them to the lumisizer test alongside your formulations? Maybe some selected by the client and others from large brands in the category (ex Clinique, Fenty, Maybelline, Covergirl in the US) to see if they also hold up under the same conditions. If nothing passes that test… w/o are notoriously hard to stabilize, I don’t know if that kind of test is common for these kind of products.
- Is w/o necessary or can you make something anhydrous?
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Is your water deionized? Salt content might be creating some streaks. Certain non-ionic surfactants are also recommended for window cleaners (ex Tomadol 901). What pH is your current formulation at?
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Xanthan, Ultrez 20, Alginate will not work, they will interact with the Al which is positively charged. HEC you might be able to have some success, please share how you have incorporated that polymer and what specific brand you are using. You can also try HP guar
I should also mention that if you are in the US, anti-perspirant is an OTC and so I wouldn’t recommend making this as a beginner, and certainly not for anything other than personal use.
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How do you incorporate the Amaze XT ( when in process, how long do you mix)?
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TEA dodecylbenzene sulfonate is an anionic detergent, I would not expect this to provide conditioning benefits. Can you remove this and try again?
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What surfactants are you currently using and are you using any polymers?
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It would sink
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Does this happen if you leave out menthol?
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Remove the glycerin and see if your foam improves at all, there’s no real benefit to including it in wash-off and it can diminish foam. Abdullah’s recommendation of 3:1 ASM is good and should help you on cost a little (assuming your CAPB is more expensive than SLES). Some polymers can help with foam stability as well (HPMC comes to mind first), but not sure you want to include them as they would increase cost/ processing.
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Increasing xanthan gum makes sense- 0.1% is not enough to really contribute, and it may not hydrate as fully in a nut-milk based system. I hope this is for personal use only?
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Would the polyquats provide enough suspension/ viscosity? and also potentially form coacervates that would entrap the silicones and further stabilize?
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Agreed with other comments here, we don’t know why you are excluding carrageenan (is it high cost, processing difficulties, performance or supply inconsistency?) so recommendations may not be as helpful. You can use other gelling polysaccharides like low-acyl gellan gum or pectin.
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Can you share your process/order of addition? When do you add gums vs surfactants; how long do you give to hydrate?
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what’s the final pH of your dishwash? Do you add natrosol after surfactants are added to water?
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Where to get sodium alginate depends on your region and volumes you plan to purchase- are you making something at home as a hobbyist or for professional use?
for the hobbyist: https://modernistpantry.com/products/sodium-alginate.html
for manufacturing: several different options, FMC biopolymer/ kelco used to be large sources , but currently JRS, BASF supply.
As for the formula, you can find free formulations on the following sites (may or may not have algin):
https://chemistscorner.com/where-to-find-free-cosmetic-formulas/
People don’t generally give out free custom formulations on this forum, if you are looking to hire a formulator for development :
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I assume the order you wrote is order of addition, are you heating at all and how long do you mix before adding next ingredients? Does this system look uniform initially and you see this separation over some time (how fast) and at room temperature or elevated?
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@Ron_93 I’d have to know more about what you included/ how it was prepared. Did you use a retarder/ extender? Without the extender you may see some lumping from poor dispersion of the alginate, without the retarder you may see lumping from premature gel formation
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Xanthan should work in presence of 4% glycolic, just slurry it with glycerin and add it in after water (and chelator if using). Whether you like the sensory/appearance or not is another question, but to speed up ‘absorption’ you could add small amount of ethanol, or try adding some starch or silica- but those options will also modify feel
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You could use a refatting agent like Glyceryl oleate, Polyglyceryl-3 Caprate, or Peg-7 Glyceryl Cocoate
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Can you clarify what you mean by ‘solid detergency’?
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Adding polymer like xanthan or HPMC can help reduce drainage and might give the foam a ‘stiffer’ look by leaking water more slowly?
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Maybe if you use high MW cationic guar? I would suggest adding the gums early (first if possible) since ionic gums like xanthan or cationic guar tend to hydrate better into low ionic strength environments. So use your glycerin to premix with the gum and create a slurry, then add into your water + chelator, then proceed to add surfactants
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You can take a look at this patent
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thanks for your response. I have seen that is typical for many descaling products, but my understanding is that the lower the pH the more each of these acids exists in protonated form, making them less efficient as sequestrants. I think phytic acid sounds like a good option, just wanted to see if there were any others or additional things to consider.
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I can’t speak much to performance and I don’t work on haircare much, there are some other chemists on this site that can answer better than me in those aspects.
General recommendations I’ve seen are to hydrate those materials into water solutions either early in water phase (especially if using for final product viscosity), or as a premix to be incorporated to the end of the process (typical for lower molecular weights)