Cosmetic Chemist and AI course 
evchem2
Forum Replies Created
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I’m no preservation expert, but both products also have the multifunctional caprylyl glycol which should help with preservation somewhat. Also I seriously doubt the aloe/oat content is significant in either product, and the raw materials may be held to strict specifications on incoming micro count. There are also preservatives that can fall under the “fragrance” INCI like p-anisic acid in the moisture cream.
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If you search in this forum for bloom/blooming, you can see this problem has been discussed a few times here.
https://chemistscorner.com/cosmeticsciencetalk/discussion/bloom-testing/
chemistscorner.com
Bloom Testing - Chemists Corner
Hi all,I'm working on a lip balm (going into a tube, not a stick, but is anhydrous) and my customer asked if I've done bloom…
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When you say cushy/cushiony are you referring to the way the product itself feels or how it makes your hair feel? You should be able to use salt to thicken this formula as well, and maybe the addition of a cationic guar could help with some of the feeling on hair.
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You are using Potassium Cocoate which is a true soap (carboxylate). These kinds of surfactants need to remain at alkaline pH (close to 9-10) otherwise you protonate the carboxylic acid group and your material can become insoluble. So my guess is the pH was brought down too far and you lost the solubility (and performance) of that surfactant
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When using a solubilizer ( the polysorbate) for fragrance, a general recommendation is to use 3-5x of that compared to your fragrance. Are you premixing the polysorbate and fragrance before adding as well?
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the INCI name I see for colloidal oatmeal is Avena Sativa (Oat) Kernel Flour . The difference between OTC and cosmetics really comes down to intended use. See FDAs page on this: https://www.fda.gov/cosmetics/cosmetics-laws-regulations/it-cosmetic-drug-or-both-or-it-soap
and their definitions of cosmetics vs drugs.
If you want to include colloidal oatmeal in a cosmetic, you cannot claim to treat or prevent any disease. Colloidal oatmeal is a registered OTC active for skin protectant claims, so if you make that claim on your product (or even if it is strongly implied, the FDA also considers consumers understanding vs companies explicit descriptions) the FDA could determine your product is a drug and needs to go through proper process. Take a look at commercial products with OTC claims (ex Aveeno Baby Ezcema Therapy ) vs cosmetic claims (ex Aveeno Calm + Restore Facial Moisturizer for Sensitive Skin). Skin dryness is a fine line for claims and I’m not a regulatory expert, but some level of moisturization/hydration related claims seem to be fine, it’s the prevention or disease mitigation that veers away from cosmetic territory.
fda.gov
Is It a Cosmetic, a Drug, or Both? (Or Is It Soap?)
An overview of the legal differences between cosmetics and drugs, and whether a cosmetic can be both or just a soap.
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Is this from an indie brand or a large multinational? Do they make any claims about efficacy/ skin improvement? What I’m getting at is just because they put it in the formula does not mean they ensured retinol stability/performance
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What’s the pH of your formula? How do you incorporate the PQ 10? If you make the formula with everything but PQ 10 do you still see the separation? Lastly, can you explain why are you including 20%? glycerin?
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Not a haircare formulator, but here’s my thoughts:
1. The ‘mechanism’ as far as I know is alcohol or starches absorbing oil/sebum and giving hair a more matte appearance.
2. Anyone who would like to skip washing their hair occasionally. If you’re asking about target demographic probably younger women with long hair
3. I’m not sure on this, I think a spray would likely get more uniform widespread coverage but probably comes down to the specific packaging/formula.
4. You should take a look at big brands that are in this space and read their ingredient labels. You can also look at amazon/ulta/sephora top sellers online.
https://www.pantene.co.uk/en-gb/hair-tips/hair-care/how-does-dry-shampoo-work/
pantene.co.uk
Ever wondered how dry shampoo works? Now you don't have to! Discover how dry shampoo transforms locks from greasy to great in no time with Pantene's advice.
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Is there a benchmark product that has some attributes you’d like to replicate or build on? I’d start by looking at what’s already in the market and what ingredients those products contain. You will start to notice if there are commonalities and researching what functions the ingredients can have will help you start to plan your own formulation.
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Might be related to the combination of anionic surfactant with cationic surfactant from the amodimethicone emulsion
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If your pH is going to be 7-8 I don’t believe potassium sorbate will be effective as a preservative (see intro of this paper for a quick explanation of how organic acid preservatives and their salts work). This would also apply to the acids in your verstatil and microcare blends. You should look for alternative methods of preservation such as CMIT/MIT blends, maybe phenoxyethanol/ethylhexylglycerin, or others. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4178694/
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Sorbic acid and acetic acid are among the weak organic acid preservatives most commonly used to improve the microbiological stability of foods. They have similar pK[a] values, but sorbic acid is a far more potent preservative. Weak organic acids are … Continue reading
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I think allantoin could be a potential crystallizer here, but also the PBSA. I haven’t worked with it commercially but I believe product pH needs to be right around neutral for PBSA to remain soluble.
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What’s the final application? Might be able to use PVP, maybe a carbomer, diutan gum will definitely work but might require some heat/shear
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@ketchito is right on, especially for iota carrageenan- divalents will work best and you can usually use a bit less than the monovalents which will help reduce chance of instability (maybe try 0.1-0.2% CaCl2 or MgSO4?). Since you’re making an o/w system, I would suggest adding those salts after forming the emulsion (https://www.ulprospector.com/knowledge/11641/pcc-tips-and-tricks-guaranteed-to-improve-the-your-formulations-part-one/) .Do you know which type of carrageenan you are using?
ulprospector.com
Tips and Tricks Guaranteed to Improve Your Formulations (Part One)
Water Based Thickeners The easiest way to add xanthan gum to the water phase of your formulations is to first disperse the gum into a water-miscible solven
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I am not well-versed in either hot-fill or color cosmetics, but I had a couple thoughts:
1. Are the glass containers warmed at all before being filled with product? Could you run them through a heat tunnel so they are not quite as cool when being filled? Maybe less of a temperature shock going from 63C to RT containers would help.
2. Are you selling in the US market? If yes, I would be very careful because your botanical extract (from Campo?) is not an approved colorant for cosmetics, let alone those in contact with the mouth. I would make very sure you have appropriate safety data for this formula.
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If you have only 1% glycol, I would stick to using <0.3% xanthan gum if you keep the slurry method- but if you’re seeing clumping then something isn’t working with the current process. The ‘gloopiness’ is characteristic of this gum, certain grades from specific suppliers can offer some improvement on that. Air bubbles are also normal, xanthan provides viscosity and suspension- to limit their incorporation try to keep your mixing blade a bit off-center and monitor your mixing speed (watch if you are pulling air into the vortex).
ChemicalMatt’s method will also work, I recommend slurry method when I don’t know the processing equipment capability. The end goal is uniform product not just within one batch but lot to lot, and if your slurry is thick and difficult to incorporate on small scale it might also be an issue for scale-up, so use whatever method gives you best results.
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If you have any kind of glycols in your formulation (glycerin, propanediol, etc), you can premix the xanthan gum in that instead (at least a 3:1 ratio glycol: gum is advised) and add that into the water phase instead.
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The thickeners you have available are almost all “shear thinning” in behavior (not sure on the Crothix behavior but might be similar based on your perception )- also called pseudoplastic. It means when you scrub the product into your hair and apply more force, the formula gets thinner. At high levels each of those polymers might not shear thin as much, but as you noted they might start to feel too heavy/glue-like. Salt-thickened surfactant systems have more newtonian behavior- they flow about the same regardless on force you use. That might be the ‘cushiony’ profile you are used to in retail products.
As for how much salt to use, I’d suggest setting up a salt curve- Perry has a good explanation here (https://chemistscorner.com/salt-curve-analysis-how-to-control-cleansing-cosmetics/)
Since you don’t have a way to measure viscosity, just follow the first steps and keep small samples of you batch- one with no salt and a few with various levels, ex 0.2,0.5,1.0,2.0% . You can check those the next day or after a few hours and see which level works best for your system.
chemistscorner.com
Salt Curve Analysis - How to control cleansing cosmetics - Chemists Corner
When you formulate an anionic surfactant based cleansing formula, you don’t normally have to include a separate thickening system. This is because salt will thicken…
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Solabia has a formulation using Fucogel powder in the water phase (pre emulsification) and heating to 75C. I don’t see a reason why you couldn’t add it post emulsification as well if you properly dispersed it.
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You can check out some of the contacts here:
chemistscorner.com
Need formulating services? Here are some contacts - Chemists Corner
****This discussion is for listing your services only. Requests for services should be made in our Opportunities/Requests category. Non-applicable comments will be removed***We get a…
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Traditional: depends on your preference but some of the classics are PEG-100 Stearate & Glyceryl Stearate combo (trade name Arlacel 165, amongst others), or Cetearyl Alcohol & Polysorbate 60 (Emulsifying wax). If ethoxylates are undesirable some other popular options are from the montanov series from Seppic (ex Montanov 68 Cetearyl Alcohol & Cetearyl Glucoside)
Polymeric: something from the Pemulen series from Lubrizol (Acrylates/ C10-30 Alkyl Acrylate Crosspolymer). The also have a more ‘natural’ oriented Pemupur Start, though I haven’t used it myself.
Some combinations are more or less preferred depending on the final desired appearance/feel of the product, availability, cost, etc. There are plenty of threads in this forum that also mention some popular choices. @chemicalmatt is an industry vet, you can also go the route he suggested and saponify.
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Polysorbate 80 is more often used for solubilizing when you have a low percentage of oil (~<1%). To try and use it with 10% of a fatty acid, I imagine you would need to use quite a bit (the general recommendation is 3-4x the oil level) and it will feel sticky/unpleasant. I’d stick with a more traditional emulsifier (but then you might have to move to hot process), or maybe replace HEC with a polymeric emulsifier (I don’t know if your active would cause any problems with one of those)
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@chemicalmatt thank you! That’s wild, I didn’t include that I had 3% glycerin in the system (the only other component) because I assumed it would be negligible…I recall a saying about assumptions that seems relevant. Any idea the reasoning behind the incompatibility?
Thanks for the tip about the borate, not sure how client will feel about it but good to have in the toolbox
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Would this be true for any of the organic acids to some extent?
