chemicalmatt
Forum Replies Created
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Polyquaternium-10 low MW (JR400 clones like Conditioner P10 from 3V Sigma) work best for thick, curly hair, hands down, especially when used with silicones (from sand - natural, I swear), and I’ll agree with ketchito, less than 1.00% w/w is plenty, no need to use more, and it will build up too.
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Guar HPTC does not build and does not coat a continuous film like many of the cationic cellulosics do so you are OK. I will add that phospholipids are anionic (opposite charge) so not the best choice of “lipid” conditioner in this. Why not use plain oleic triglycerides, i.e. olive oil, instead?
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We can assume pH is not relevant here - with HCl as de-scaler this is REALLY LOW - like 1.5 right? What is the greater problem Sandy, viscosity loss or color-change? I’ll wager a little of that methyl salicylate is hydrolyzing to salicylic acid and complexing with your dye. As for the viscosity: no comment.
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I have to think MgOH2 is not as effective an odor-neutralizer as any zinc salt; I love the stuff in my antacid though, really zaps the acid reflux. How about nixing the Mg and subbing with zinc citrate? “Double Zinc Deodorant Stick”? This will work better and then you have all water-solubles. Jus sayin’
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I can add that the higher MW HYA allows your skin to feel as supple and elastic as a newborn’s. Lower MW? - not so much.
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I think the introduction of urethane co-polymer hair fixatives has improved styling especially the tactile afterfeel. These were scarce or non-existent in ’92.
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Not often I get to add to Dr. Phil Geis’ comments (I am a fan) but I will: Germall Plus is broad-spectrum having the IPBC in there and one of the best you can use. My opinion, and Phil can add here, is the Euxyl may be turbocharging your anti-bac efficacy with the phenoxyethanol and only marginally adding to the antifungal activity. Euxyl is no harm, no foul, but maybe unnecessary.
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..what Perry said, plus I think your “fine lines” problem can be isolated to
a) having both EGMS and EGDS in the same formula plus too much of both.
b) having an anionic amino acid derivative (PCA) and a cationic polymer (PQ10) in the same formula
c) if that CAPB is 7.0% of the standard 30% material you have insufficient hydrotrope to maintain solution integrity of both the glycol stearate(s) and the oils. I have to wonder how this would remain stable for even a day?
As Perry suggests, REDUCE all of those proteins and oils to <0.10%, then delete NaPCA, glyceryl distearate and glycerin (the MOST common mistake in shampoo formulation in this Forum - please stop adding glycerin to these products EVERYONE!) and you may have a winner here. -
Azelaic acid average mass = 188 Da = 188g/L, so 1 mmol = 0.188g/L or ~ 0.02% w/w, so 5 mmol ~ 0.10% w/w. Should be soluble in butylene glycol, but add a little ethoxydiglycol to co-solvate and for dermal penetration. Leave the ethanol in the vodka bottle. Hope this helps.
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I’m gonna’ go with PhilGeis here - for the most part. Those glycol blends in phenoxyethanol have some efficacy vs. fungi, molds, yeasts but not enough to comfort me. If you cannot stomach parabens, then add iodopropynyl butylcarbamate (IPBC), allowable up to 0.01% everywhere. The drop-in IPBC solutions in phenoxytol from Thor are cheap and easy to add.
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suswang8: lysolecithin is the more specialized phospholipid surfactant, nice if you are fixin’ to make liposomes or something of that sort that are to penetrate stratum corneum. Straight, cheap soy lecithin is mainly phosphatidyl choline and a powerful o/w emulsifier capable of an oil load of 40:1. Can’t comment on the shiny thing.
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Just an addedendum here @filiz since @ketchito called it right. The classic ratio of surfactant build in formulas such as these is 4:2:1 anionic:amphoteric:alkanolamide. Increasing ampho ratio generally -but not always- will build viscosity even more until you have a gel on your hands. I rarely need to add NaCl. Also you found out on your own that deleting polyols like Aquaxyl (and glycerin - DEL that too) increases your viscosity. Good lesson to learn! Friends: stop adding glycerin and other polyols to body washes, shampoos and shower gels. All it does is kill viscosity and reduce foam.
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You will be fine. This is 40 volume, high as it gets, so expect some O2 to accumulate in headspace at 43C. Keep the caps slightly loosened. If the peroxide is stable you shouldn’t expect much. I recall testing stability of peroxide in a flask with a condenser attached at a low boil. Assay initially, then at 24 hours. Quick & Effective. I’ll bet @Perry may have experienced this test in his Alberto-Culver days.
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Try adding triethyl citrate ~1.0%. Might work. Shame the buyer can’t break out of that mode. Bacteria may get used to it and start propagating.
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@ajw000 This is easier than you think: DELETE THE GLYCERINE! You have plenty surfactants in this and you will notice a dramatic improvement in foam. As I have stated so many times in this forum: friends, don’t let friends add glycerine to shampoos and body washes. All it does is kill foam and viscosity before it rinses down your drain to oblivion.
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ISIS (the ester not the terrorists) is a nice light branched ester. Not too expensive either. Decent emolliency and easy to work with. This combo above includes Cetyl Stearate I see, also known as “Cetyl Esters” and a good addition for that powdery cushion after-feel; also not expensive. Both should be relatively easy to find as separate materials, at least in North America. May need to find an atypical vendor.
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@P89 Those fat burners are MCT oil (caprylic/capric triglycerides) which we use as an emollient oil for those who don’t like mineral oil. Nothing you apply topically will duplicate this but DO let us know if you discover one so I can stop with all those stomach crunches.
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@Thota
The formulators are reducing the water activity (Aw) using these polyols. They’re using more than you think too. Check SpG of product as an indicator as these all lend density. -
@filiz I suspect the propylene glycol/glycerin/cellulose blend is leaving a film behind making it feel “not dry.” Aluminum chlorohydrate will leave a white residue behind always unless you use the micronized grade. Also, with 18%EtOH and AlClHy why use a preservative? No need.
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HDPE is compatible with vegetable triglycerides, but the plasticizers used by this blow molder were not, which is why some bottles will soften like that. The phthalates (now discontinued) plasticizers were infamous for this.
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@Dtdang, yes the formulation will thicken increasing all three, but stearic acid is only useful when used with an alkali and/or the glyceryl monostearate (GMS) should be the GMS-SE (self-emulsifying) grade, which incorporates an alkali already. You may thicken more efficiently increasing only cetyl alcohol, BTW.
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Folks, just keep in mind that comedogenicty is concentration dependent. Sweet Almond Oil is one of the highest rated - at 100% - but at 5% in your formula, not so much. With these surfactants, same holds true. Allergenicity is a broader issue and phenotype specific.
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Molds & yeasts are more prevalent adulterants than bacteria in many formulations, e.g. clay masks, face primers. The best antifungal agents are PARABENS, of course, but that word scares so many people its a non-starter. I recommend including iodopropynyl butylcarbamate (IPBC), usually sold in a solution in phenoxyethanol. Applicable globally at 0.01% w/w if memory serves.
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Yes, it will. You are correct.
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@Marit assuming you folks have not developed a new formulation concept but emulated one of the EPA registered ones, I’ll suggest sub-registering with a formulator of record. You are also advised to seek out a consultant. Even the peeps at EPA advise this. If this is a truly novel approach then you will need to spend >$100,000 in testing requirements plus the registration fee ($4000 per if I remember last time) plus a lot more fees to the consultant. First step is to get that facility and company number registration from EPA. You cannot get anywhere without those.