Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating Combining Preservatives - Germall Plus and Euxyl

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  • Combining Preservatives - Germall Plus and Euxyl

    Posted by emma1985 on December 3, 2020 at 7:54 am

    So I know each preservative has its strengths and weaknesses, therefore I am interested in combining 2 preservatives (in addition to using GMP.) I already use Liquid Germall Plus and have for many years, but I am interested in adding Euxyl 9010.

    Are there any concerns regarding the combination of 0.5% Liquid Germall Plus and 0.5% Euxyl 9010? There are no ingredient overlaps. I wanted to check with you all just in case I’m missing something.

    I also use 0.1% Disodium EDTA. 

    Thank you in advance.

    PhilGeis replied 3 years, 2 months ago 8 Members · 20 Replies
  • 20 Replies
  • PhilGeis

    Member
    December 3, 2020 at 10:30 am

    Euxyl 9010 (phenoxyethanol) targets Gram negative bacteria - as does Germall.  they overlap in efficacy.  Are you seeing issues wiuth  Gram negative’s? 

  • emma1985

    Member
    December 3, 2020 at 5:17 pm

    PhilGeis said:

    Euxyl 9010 (phenoxyethanol) targets Gram negative bacteria - as does Germall.  they overlap in efficacy.  Are you seeing issues wiuth  Gram negative’s? 

    No, just want to achieve a really robust preservative system. I’m intrigued by Euxyl because it is advertised as being able to kill bacteria in a product that is already contaminated. I use GMP but I do formulate with extracts, hydrosols, etc. Ingredients that can be difficult to preserve. I’m okay with overlap as long as there are no issues. 

  • PhilGeis

    Member
    December 3, 2020 at 5:55 pm

    Don’t bet on killing bacteria in contaminated product.    How does the Germall+/EDTA perform in chaloenge?

  • emma1985

    Member
    December 3, 2020 at 6:47 pm

    I’m not betting on it, as I said I always use GMP but on the off chance that one of my ingredients is contaminated, I like the idea of Euxyl as I do use a lot of botanicals. 

    I haven’t tested my products because I only make skincare for myself and friends/family, for now. I want to sell in the future which is why I’m researching preservative combinations.

  • chemicalmatt

    Member
    December 3, 2020 at 9:15 pm

    Not often I get to add to Dr. Phil Geis’ comments (I am a fan) but I will: Germall Plus is broad-spectrum having the IPBC in there and one of the best you can use. My opinion, and Phil can add here, is the Euxyl may be turbocharging your anti-bac efficacy with the phenoxyethanol and only marginally adding to the antifungal activity. Euxyl is no harm, no foul, but maybe unnecessary.

  • PhilGeis

    Member
    December 4, 2020 at 8:54 am

    I’m with chemicalmatt!

  • emma1985

    Member
    December 4, 2020 at 4:34 pm

    Thank you both so much! 

  • ngarayeva001

    Member
    December 5, 2020 at 3:02 pm

    I will use a chance to throw my question too as we are lucky to have two experts here. I often combine germall plus and phenonip. The reason being, I buy ingredients from repackagers, and you can’t trust them on storing ingredients properly (I saw things like coconut oil in a ziplock bag and photosensitive materials in a transparent bottle). Also they decant ingredients million times allowing dust and bugs in. So I just assume all ingredients are compromised from day 1. Is there any reason not to do this. I figured there are no overlapping compounds in these two preservative blends so I won’t go over recommended limit. Thank you in advance @PhilGeis and @chemicalmatt

  • PhilGeis

    Member
    December 5, 2020 at 7:47 pm

    You  mak verye reasonable points.  My experiecne was with a big company that could demand quality materials.  I  used single components so that I could adjust/titrate concnentrations if needed.

  • ngarayeva001

    Member
    December 5, 2020 at 8:55 pm

    Thank you. I understand it’s a bit overkill but unfortunately cosmetic formulation as a hobby has limitations when it comes to sourcing materials (both price and quality).

  • Ifa

    Member
    December 15, 2020 at 7:30 am

    I will use a chance to throw my question too as we are lucky to have two experts here. I often combine germall plus and phenonip. The reason being, I buy ingredients from repackagers, and you can’t trust them on storing ingredients properly (I saw things like coconut oil in a ziplock bag and photosensitive materials in a transparent bottle). Also they decant ingredients million times allowing dust and bugs in. So I just assume all ingredients are compromised from day 1. Is there any reason not to do this. I figured there are no overlapping compounds in these two preservative blends so I won’t go over recommended limit. Thank you in advance @PhilGeis and @chemicalmatt

    When you say “bug food”, what do you mean by it? What ingredients fall under this category of ingredients?

  • OldPerry

    Member
    December 15, 2020 at 2:27 pm

    “Bug food” is any ingredient on which microbes can eat and grow. This can be sugars, carbohydrates, proteins, or a variety of other hydrocarbons found in cosmetics formulas. 

  • PhilGeis

    Member
    December 18, 2020 at 10:31 am

    and they don’t even need much “food” as bugs (esp. Gram negatives like cepacia) can contaminated purified water systems.

  • ngarayeva001

    Member
    December 19, 2020 at 11:46 am

    A couple of very common examples: plant extracts, hydrolyzed proteins, aloe (deserves its own place I think), lecithin, and clays. And obviously anything that can be classified as food: milk, honey, fruit and vegetable purées (hello Lush) and similar claim ingredients that don’t do anything beyond being fairy dust.

  • ngarayeva001

    Member
    December 19, 2020 at 11:49 am

    @PhilGeis Dr. Geis, it always fascinated me how some bacteria manage to multiply in steam distilled water. 

  • PhilGeis

    Member
    December 20, 2020 at 7:12 pm

    @PhilGeis Dr. Geis, it always fascinated me how some bacteria manage to multiply in steam distilled water. 

    Yes!  Even more bizarre - raw materials: fungal (Penicillim spores) contamination citric acid, ZPT suspension for antidandruff shampoo with P. aeruginosa, concentrated disinfectant quat active raw material with P. aeruginosa, B. cepacia in 70% ethanol (not mine - in literature).

    products: colonies of Kurthia sp. isolate in/on soap bar (with milk), Bacillus sp. isolate in pH 9 built hard surface cleaner, Halomonas in high pH liquid laundry 

  • abierose

    Member
    April 12, 2021 at 4:01 pm

    PhilGeis said:

    @PhilGeis Dr. Geis, it always fascinated me how some bacteria manage to multiply in steam distilled water. 

    Yes!  Even more bizarre - raw materials: fungal (Penicillim spores) contamination citric acid, ZPT suspension for antidandruff shampoo with P. aeruginosa, concentrated disinfectant quat active raw material with P. aeruginosa, B. cepacia in 70% ethanol (not mine - in literature).

    products: colonies of Kurthia sp. isolate in/on soap bar (with milk), Bacillus sp. isolate in pH 9 built hard surface cleaner, Halomonas in high pH liquid laundry 

    Isn’t nature fascinating!! And frustrating too ????

  • abierose

    Member
    April 12, 2021 at 4:06 pm

    I will use a chance to throw my question too as we are lucky to have two experts here. I often combine germall plus and phenonip. The reason being, I buy ingredients from repackagers, and you can’t trust them on storing ingredients properly (I saw things like coconut oil in a ziplock bag and photosensitive materials in a transparent bottle). Also they decant ingredients million times allowing dust and bugs in. So I just assume all ingredients are compromised from day 1. Is there any reason not to do this. I figured there are no overlapping compounds in these two preservative blends so I won’t go over recommended limit. Thank you in advance @PhilGeis and @chemicalmatt

    You mention “storing ingredientats” and this is something I am currently in the middle of researching as I need to rearrange and figure out the most efficient way to store my ingredients…do you have a system down for storing your ingredients that works and that prevents ingredients from going bad before their expiration date? 
    If this needs to be started as a new discussion, I totally understand….just curious as I am in dire need of a system to store my ever growing ingredient stores!

  • Pharma

    Member
    April 12, 2021 at 6:07 pm

    A fridge or even better a freezer would be great ;) .

  • PhilGeis

    Member
    April 13, 2021 at 9:46 am

    Suggest folks deal with competent suppliers who tell you how and how long to store raw materials. Excessive heat and excessive cold can both compromise a raw material. I recall cosmetic manufacturer who stored drums of preservative solution at less than specified temp. Active fell out of solution leaving ingredient addition nothing but solvent - and product unpreserved and contaminated.

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