Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating Hair Which poly quat is best for curly hair shampoo

  • Which poly quat is best for curly hair shampoo

    Posted by Rookayerh123 on November 29, 2020 at 4:20 pm

    Hello,

    I’m trying I’m formulate a sulphate free shampoo

    With AOS 40, Coco betaine, poly quat, liquid thickner, presevative

    I want to know.

    Which poly quat is best for shampoo? Poly quat 7 0r poly quat 10

    I want to formulate a shampoo for curly hair and I am not sure which is best? Has anyone used both in their formulas and what were the results?

    I am going to use a liquid thickner to thicken the product so I’m not keen on the poly quat having that benefit.

    ketchito replied 3 years, 4 months ago 5 Members · 9 Replies
  • 9 Replies
  • chemistry8303

    Member
    December 1, 2020 at 8:46 am
    Hello
    In my experience , quat 10 is better and softener than quat 7 for curly hair. you can use it in 2% .
  • ngarayeva001

    Member
    December 1, 2020 at 11:48 pm

    Polyquaternium 10 is like ‘carbomer’ or xanthan gum. There’s a huge variety of them and they can be drastically different.

  • Rookayerh123

    Member
    December 2, 2020 at 2:43 pm

    Hello
    In my experience , quat 10 is better and softener than quat 7 for curly hair. you can use it in 2% .

    Thanks. But I have read using more than 0.5% poly quat 10 can give the product an unwanted feel? Have you used the 2% before or at what % have you used it

  • ketchito

    Member
    December 2, 2020 at 2:57 pm

    @Rookayerh123 PQ-10 can buil-up heavily on hair, and if the formula is sulfate-free, it’d be harder to remove most of the polymero on each wash. I’ve never tried more than 0.5% (providing it’s a 100% polyquat) precisely for this build-up. Some companies mix low amounts of both PQ-10 and PQ-7 (PQ-7 not only builds-up less, but since it’s a copolymer, it has more “mobility” than polysaccaride based cationics like PQ-10 and Guar HPTC, which translates in more lubrication especially during the wet stage).   

  • chemicalmatt

    Member
    December 3, 2020 at 9:49 pm

    Polyquaternium-10 low MW (JR400 clones like Conditioner P10 from 3V Sigma) work best for thick, curly hair, hands down, especially when used with silicones (from sand - natural, I swear), and I’ll agree with ketchito, less than 1.00% w/w is plenty, no need to use more, and it will build up too. 

  • Rookayerh123

    Member
    December 4, 2020 at 11:06 am

    ketchito said:

    @Rookayerh123 PQ-10 can buil-up heavily on hair, and if the formula is sulfate-free, it’d be harder to remove most of the polymero on each wash. I’ve never tried more than 0.5% (providing it’s a 100% polyquat) precisely for this build-up. Some companies mix low amounts of both PQ-10 and PQ-7 (PQ-7 not only builds-up less, but since it’s a copolymer, it has more “mobility” than polysaccaride based cationics like PQ-10 and Guar HPTC, which translates in more lubrication especially during the wet stage).   

    Thank you. I plan to use poly quat 10 at 0.4%.

    If I were to use poly quat 7, what % would you recommend. 

  • Rookayerh123

    Member
    December 4, 2020 at 11:07 am

    Polyquaternium-10 low MW (JR400 clones like Conditioner P10 from 3V Sigma) work best for thick, curly hair, hands down, especially when used with silicones (from sand - natural, I swear), and I’ll agree with ketchito, less than 1.00% w/w is plenty, no need to use more, and it will build up too. 

    Thank you.

    What silicones?
     Dimethicone, cyclomethicone?

  • chemicalmatt

    Member
    December 4, 2020 at 1:43 pm

    Dimethicone only, and use higher MW such as 1000 CST, works best with low MW PQ10.

  • ketchito

    Member
    December 4, 2020 at 3:07 pm

    ketchito said:

    @Rookayerh123 PQ-10 can buil-up heavily on hair, and if the formula is sulfate-free, it’d be harder to remove most of the polymero on each wash. I’ve never tried more than 0.5% (providing it’s a 100% polyquat) precisely for this build-up. Some companies mix low amounts of both PQ-10 and PQ-7 (PQ-7 not only builds-up less, but since it’s a copolymer, it has more “mobility” than polysaccaride based cationics like PQ-10 and Guar HPTC, which translates in more lubrication especially during the wet stage).   

    Thank you. I plan to use poly quat 10 at 0.4%.

    If I were to use poly quat 7, what % would you recommend. 

    You could use the 0.4% of PQ-10 alone, or split in half between PQ-10 and PQ-7 (remember that PQ-7 comes usually as a 10% slution, so to have 0.2%, you’d need to use 2% of the commercial material).  

Log in to reply.