[Abdullah]

dehydroacetic acid is only 0.07% water soluble. I don’t know how much effective it would be.

[Abdullah]

Robert said:

@Abdullah @ketchito 
Do not you think that anionic surfactants lower than 9% as an active material is un acceptable as a shampoo?
Also 1501 will definitely separated, 
as a suggestion i am adding cetrimonium chloride combined with SLES in the shampoo some how is good on hair but not perfect, I am disappointed with shampoos becuase I tried everything to make shampoo for soft and smooth effect on hair but all the time failed

waiting any suggestion

I don’t think so

[Abdullah]

drjayseesunish said:

Abdullah said:

Syl said:

I personally like a PH of 5 or less because hair cuticules are smoother at that pH preventing tangles.

When you rinse with water that has pH 7, it doesn’t matter anymore what was the pH before rinsing. 

@Abdullah I think , a lower or higher ph whatever give the impact on skin or hair, can’t be affected by the water with ph7 because neutral can’t change the ph else no change their impact too.

Neutral changes the pH to neutral. 

For example, take 5g shampoo that has pH 5, mix it with 100g water, final pH would be around 7. Not 5. 
This is what happens when you wet your hair and apply shampoo. Then when you rinse it with extra water, it becomes a definite ph 7.

[Abdullah]

drjayseesunish said:

Abdullah said:

A lot of things in handwash can effect viscosity including pH. So do some experiments. 

@Abdullah when should we add EDTA in the solution, before neturalisation or after it? Any particular time or step? In detergent case. 

It is better to add EDTA earlier to solution

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

Not normal

Thanks

[Abdullah]

ketchito said:

@Red_Head Why would you think Dimethicone deposits better than Bis-aminopropyl dimethicone? Amine functionalized dimethicones deposit at some level through interaction with binding sites on hair. Bis-aminopropyl dimethicone has two binding sites (compared to single amino dimethicones), helping it deposit better and more selectively. Also, when positively charged, it also helps form a more even film on hair, avoiding overdeposition.

Have you used Bis-aminopropyl dimethicone? 
How do you compare it to 100k cst amodimethicone?

[Abdullah]

Red_Head said:

ketchito said:

@Red_Head Why would you think Dimethicone deposits better than Bis-aminopropyl dimethicone? 

About bis-aminopropyl dimethicone i read:

“It actually bonds to damaged areas on the hair’s cuticle”

That is, it sticks like amodimethicone, only to negatively charged areas of the hair, but better than amodimethicone (it seems to me) and worse than dimethicone. Logically, this means that regular dimethicone will stick everywhere, not just selectively, like BA dimethicone.

If dimethicone accumulates better (not to the point of build-up, I think build-up is almost impossible considering that most shampoos are SLES + CAPB), does this not mean that it will protect the hair better, because it is more difficult to wash off, sticks more and reacts less to physical actions (combing, touching hands, styling hair)?

Another thought is that most of the big companies use dimethicone, amodimethicone, dimethiconol in their formulas. I see BA dimethicone only in products from P&G (I mean from the mass market).

I haven’t had a chance to compare dimethicone and BA dimethicone in the same formula, so all I’ve said is just a theory that may have nothing to do with the real situation, which is why I asked.

All of them deposit on all parts of hair. Amodimethicone binds more to damaged parts. 
For example: if total 6mg silicone deposit on hair, for dimethicone, it will deposit equally on all parts of hair. For amodimethicone, 4mg will deposit on tips that are damaged and need more conditioning and 2mg will deposit on roots that are healthy and don’t need more silicone. 

[Abdullah]

Syl said:

I personally like a PH of 5 or less because hair cuticules are smoother at that pH preventing tangles.

When you rinse with water that has pH 7, it doesn’t matter anymore what was the pH before rinsing. 

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

304 is prob ok.  Never plastic - impossible to effectively sanitize ongoing.
I’ve used low level hypochlorite injection for household product water.  Would oxidize iron.  No experience with formalin.

Thanks a lot

[Abdullah]

How about adding preservative like formalin to storage water as i use it in shampoo anyway? Is it a good idea?

[Abdullah]

What about ss 304 or HDPE plastic for water storage?

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

Water is a primary source of contamination in cosmetic manufacturing.  Stored, in whatever tank, vessel, bugs will grow and perpetuate themselves in biofilm.  You’ll need some mechanism to control that problem and that typically involves a recirculating systems - the optimal systems is preserved with as constant heated water or ozone treated.  Some use UV light and a micro filter recirculating through a storage tank with periodic sanitization of the system.
Hope you/ve stainless steel rather than PVC.

It is metal, some kind of iron, but not stainless steel. I will ask them what is the name of that metal.

Which of thse that you mentioned is the least expensive option?

If i add EDTA or preservative to storage water, will it help? 

[Abdullah]

nycnj said:

@Abdullah what is the purpose of the chelating agent?

It has many functions but most chemist’s use it to bost preservation.

[Abdullah]

Anna_Maria said:

Abdullah said:

Maybe you are using too much amodimethicone  too. 

In my opinion even 1% BTMS is more than enough. But it is just me.

I’m using 3% amodimethicone

In my opinion even 0.3% is more than enough.

[Abdullah]

@evchem2 that i don’t know how to disinfect the rank when it is full of water.

@PhilGeis do you mean don’t store water in production tank or don’t store at all? 

[Abdullah]

Maybe you are using too much amodimethicone  too. 

In my opinion even 1% BTMS is more than enough. But it is just me.

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

Good luck then.  Maybe be same wholesaler but different producers.

Yes that could be and also i purchased that first 25kgs several months ago. 

This wholesaler also sells SLES, SLS, cAPB, LABSA and and other cleansing raw materials. And they always have a lot of empty 200kg drums.

My question was is it normal for formalin to produce some foam when you shake it? 

If it is not normal then maybe they have transferred the formalin to a drum that was not completely clean i guess. If they have done so, then is this formalin fully functional and ok to use? 

[Abdullah]

No 

Both times i purchased it from local wholesalers and they don’t provide coa for anything. 

Here providing coa is not common. They just say it is 37% formaldehyde formalin.

Both times we purchased from same wholesaler. 

[Abdullah]

ggpetrov said:

Euxyl PE 9010 is one of the most popular preservative blends in both homemade and industrial cosmetic products. Since it’s very uncomplicated to use, I can’t understand why you have these issues with the viscosity. Usually if you’d like to get a proper answer of your question, you should share the formula and the workflow. I’ve been using the BTMS 50 and Euxyl PE9010 in combination, and i’ve never had any problems. Also I don’t think BTMS is suitable for sensitive skin (since it’s cationic).

About the Gliceryl Stearate SE which have been mentioned above, as far as I know it’s anionic by nature, so it’s incompatible with the BTMS.

You don’t need to use high amount of btms like you need for other emulsifiers so small amounts like 1% or lower wouldn’t be a problem for sensitive skin.

[Abdullah]

A lot of things in handwash can effect viscosity including pH. So do some experiments. 

[Abdullah]

ngarayeva001 said:

@Abdullah, I read IPBCis advised not to be used in body creams to limit the exposure. I don’t know how justified is that but mentioning it as something to be checked (there are max usage limits in some jurisdictions too I believe)

It is effective at very small amount ≤100ppm and it is mild too. 

For body cream in Japan 200ppm and in America 1000ppm is the upper limit. So i don’t think less than 100ppm would be any problem.

I don’t think limitation by some countries mean it is not or less safe. 

[Abdullah]

Don’t use extra fatty alcohol with btms 25. That will make your formula stable. 

[Abdullah]

amitvedakar said:

ACtually you can use LD or HD for same mold. The difference is bottle sturdiness. As i Know if Blow molding machine is used then you can use same mold for both the material. Material grade is important.we can use  LD & HD both material for same bottle mold.

we can use both material for cap that is made by Injection technology. but the material grade is different. LD, HD & PP are all PE. PP is harder than hd & LD.   

Thanks a lot 

[Abdullah]

and this is for caprylhydroxamic acid 

[Abdullah]

higher emulsifier doesnt mean better or more stable emulsion. try changing your emulsifiers.