[Abdullah]

How much glucoside is there? 
Maybe replacing it with lauryl glucoside will help with some viscosity.

In my opinion the best option is to use xanthan gum+ guar gum. The viscosity will be more than using them alone.

[Abdullah]

MurtazaHakim said:

I am still struggling to decipher the cause of precipitation in my formulation of 4% CHG skin cleanser. The formulation has Lauramine oxide and Alkyl Polyglucoside (Caprylyl Glucoside) as surfactants and Hydroxyethyl Cellulose 100 K grade as the thickener, Glycerine as humectant, colorant, fragrance, Ethanol and 4% CHG as the active ingredient.

Initially I thought that the APG being higher in pH is resulting in higher pH of the final product which in turn is responsible for the precipitation of CHG but the precipitation occurs even after adjusting the pH using citric acid.

I think I need to omit the APG and formulate using only one surfactant mainly Lauramine Oxide which is somewhere neutral in nature.

Your thoughts on this subject would be highly appreciated.

HEC is not very compatible with glucoside

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

USP grade is not needed for this application.  But you should know composition.
pH of dishwashing liquid is typically alkaline (Dawn is 9) as adjusted by e.g. NaOH.  
“Tap” water pH is usually slightly alkaline but can be highly variable.  EPA secondary drinking water standards specifies 6.5-8  https://www.epa.gov/sdwa/drinking-water-regulations-and-contaminants

Should hand dishwashing liquid also have pH 9 or it should be lower to be gentle for skin?

[Abdullah]

ketchito said:

Abdullah said:

Paprik said:

https://www.stevenabbott.co.uk/practical-surfactants/cloud-krafft.php

Would this help a bit?

Yes. That was really good.

One more question: 
Does this Krafft point matter when we are making the cleansing product or when we are using it? 

I mean should the temperature be above Krafft point of surfactants during making a shampoo and mixing surfactants to obtain micelles or during washing the hair with that shampoo? 

@Abdullah You have to be above the kraft point of your surfactants to both prevent turbidity and have good detergency (if you’re above the Kraft poing, your micelles core won’t be liquid enough to solubilize anything). Now, in practice, most common detergents have a low Kraft point which means  at room temperature you’ll always be above. Addition of salt and amphoterics also help lowering the Kraft temperature of anionics.

That is good to know because i am using a lot of salt. 

When should i be above Krafft point? 
During manufacturing or during using the product?

[Abdullah]

You forgot to write your formula

[Abdullah]

There is no legal limit. Use whatever amount you like and is not very drying.
How much is drying?
It is different for different surfactants and for different people. 

[Abdullah]

Paprik said:

https://www.stevenabbott.co.uk/practical-surfactants/cloud-krafft.php

Would this help a bit?

Yes. That was really good.

One more question: 
Does this Krafft point matter when we are making the cleansing product or when we are using it? 

I mean should the temperature be above Krafft point of surfactants during making a shampoo and mixing surfactants to obtain micelles or during washing the hair with that shampoo? 

[Abdullah]

Nowadays the most natural sounding emulsifiers are polyglyceryl and polyglycosides.

I like polyglyceryls because they are cheaper. 

[Abdullah]

No it is not recommended. But if it is part of a blend that you have to use then you dont have another option but using it.

[Abdullah]

There is no legal maximum. 

Why you want to use the maximum amount? 

It will cost you more without any good reason.

[Abdullah]

People use less because they like to use less. If you like to use 7% then there is no problem in that.

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

Sorry - “ops” as in  operations.  

Thanks

[Abdullah]

PhilGeis said:

Large manufacturers can also use continuous production. 
Also consider the efficiency of op’s -  that big concerns have few manufacturing plants and run these 24/7/365

Thanks 

What does op’s mean?

[Abdullah]

Perry said:

We had 5 tanks, 2 batches a day. If they were making the same flavor of shampoo, they just rinsed out the container & made another batch on top

Thanks

[Abdullah]

@Perry thanks 

So were they sanitizing and cleaning the tank after each batch or not?

Were they making about 10 batches in 10 production lines, one batch each or were they making 10 batches in one line and machine? 

[Abdullah]

Greasy feel after washing with C14-16 olefin sulfonate meant it is from your conditioning ingredients, not a surfactant. 
Maybe from amodimethicone. 

[Abdullah]

Thanks

[Abdullah]

How much is the conditioning ingredients in active percentage?

And how is the foam profile of this product? 

[Abdullah]

pH 4 is easier to preserve than pH 5.

If you have pH 4, more of it will be in acid form and it will not dissolve in water and will precipitate.

What i want to say is, if 0.07% DHA in acid form can’t preserve your product, then add another anti fungal preservative with it. Increasing DHA won’t help. 

Look at the commercial preservative blends that has DHA in it. There isn’t a blend that gives you more than 0.07% DHA in final product at maximum recommended use. 

[Abdullah]

Whatever amount you add, some of it will be in acid form and some in salt form. Only in acid form it will function as preservative.
Salt is more water soluble but not effective. Acid is effective but not water soluble more than 0.07%.
If you add even 0.6% and it all dissolved in water, it means they are all in salt form and not effective. 

[Abdullah]

In underdeveloped countries they drink any type of water they can find so that may not be an option. 
If she can not filter wayer by herself, the good option will be to use mineral bottled water from reputable big brands to be sure that they are clean + chelating agent.

[Abdullah]

dehydroacetic acid is only 0.07% water soluble. I don’t know how much effective it would be.

[Abdullah]

Robert said:

@Abdullah @ketchito 
Do not you think that anionic surfactants lower than 9% as an active material is un acceptable as a shampoo?
Also 1501 will definitely separated, 
as a suggestion i am adding cetrimonium chloride combined with SLES in the shampoo some how is good on hair but not perfect, I am disappointed with shampoos becuase I tried everything to make shampoo for soft and smooth effect on hair but all the time failed

waiting any suggestion

I don’t think so

[Abdullah]

drjayseesunish said:

Abdullah said:

Syl said:

I personally like a PH of 5 or less because hair cuticules are smoother at that pH preventing tangles.

When you rinse with water that has pH 7, it doesn’t matter anymore what was the pH before rinsing. 

@Abdullah I think , a lower or higher ph whatever give the impact on skin or hair, can’t be affected by the water with ph7 because neutral can’t change the ph else no change their impact too.

Neutral changes the pH to neutral. 

For example, take 5g shampoo that has pH 5, mix it with 100g water, final pH would be around 7. Not 5. 
This is what happens when you wet your hair and apply shampoo. Then when you rinse it with extra water, it becomes a definite ph 7.

[Abdullah]

drjayseesunish said:

Abdullah said:

A lot of things in handwash can effect viscosity including pH. So do some experiments. 

@Abdullah when should we add EDTA in the solution, before neturalisation or after it? Any particular time or step? In detergent case. 

It is better to add EDTA earlier to solution