Peta1
Forum Replies Created
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The PH of the guar was different each time I tested. I tried with PH below 7 and then above 8. I also adjusted the water to be acidic before adding the guar to the water. And I also tried adjusting the PH of the surfactant phase to see if that was the issue. Nothing seems to be working guar gum seems very hard to work with.
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UPDATED LEFT OUT A SURFACTANT! Hi everyone, I would love a little help in fixing my shampoo. I can’t seem to get the cationic guar gum to not clump and not stay at the bottom of the bottle. I found another discussion on here with someone that had a similar problem. I followed the suggestions but that didn’t help unfortunately. I tried 2 different ways first I adjusted the PH of the guar using Citric Acid before mixing it into the surfactant phase, that did not work still clumped. Then I tried adjusting the PH below 5 of the surfactants before mixing in the guar, that did not work still separated and clumped to the bottom.
8OZ
Phase A
Water- 44.375%
Glycerin- 4%
Cationic Guar- 0.4%
Phase B
Coco Betaine- 13.6%
Decyl Glucoside 32%
Glyceryl Oleate- 2%
Almond Oil- 2%
Phase C
Otiphen plus preservative- 1%
Fragrance-0.625%
Citric Acid
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@chemicalmatt thank you so much. I wasn’t sure if I am able to use 2 Cationic ingredients or even 3 together in one formula. I wasn’t sure if it would be a stable formula. I wanted to combine BTMS-50, stearalkonium chloride & Guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride.
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@MarkBroussard Thank you so much! I appreciate your help very much!!! I want it to be thin and light so I will leave the cetearyl alcohol.
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@MarkBroussard wow really THANK YOU!! i would have never thought that. So the oil amount is fine?
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I apologize i had to edit the above @Pharma Hi, you mentioned my oil phase is low. Is there a specific ratio for the oil phase? I switched the emulsifier to cetearyl alcohol by it self and I used 1% and I also used 1% BTMS-50 but a think i might see a small speck of water separation.
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@Pharma Hi, you mentioned my oil phase is low. Is there a specific ratio for the oil phase? I switched the emulsifier to cetearyl alcohol by it self and I used 0.08 and I also used 0.08 BTMS-50 but a think i might see a small speck of water separation.
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@chemicalmatt thank you so much! Valuable information exactly what i needed to hear!
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@Rockstargirl ok thank you! Yes I just learnt its positively charge.
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@Squinny ok thank you! I will
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@Pharma ok thanks so much. I will switch the emulsifier. I am definitely learning about cationic and anionic now.
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@Pharma I put it in the first section of the comment. It’s a blend of Glyceryl Stearate (and) Cetearyl Alcohol (and) Sodium Stearoyl Lactylate)
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I will definitely check her out! Thanks again 😉
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It worked finally! It was definitely the NaCi affecting the Glucoside Surfactant. I am relieved! Thanks for your help as well. Regarding your last question, I normally focus on the usage rate but I need to start focusing on both.
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It worked!!! Thank you so much! No one could figure it out but you! I appreciate it! The only thing that is in it are tiny bubbles. But am sure it will go away. So now I will look into surfactants that are not glucosides.
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Thank you I will try that. I will start by using the cocamidopropyl Betaine on its own and see how it behaves. If it reacts better without the decyl glucoside I will purchase another anionic surfactant.
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Thank you! I will research these surfactants. If this works I will start sticking to anionics and amphoteric surfactants. I will keep you posted on what works.
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Thank you for replying. Yes I was using the info on lotions crafters site. I am also using cocamidopropyl Betaine. It is definitely frustrating I am on the verge of changing my formula and omitting the Guar Gum. I really like it because it is very conditioning. I am also using the recommended usage rate of each surfactant if that’s what you meant. I was told maybe to try taking out the Glucoside because the react negatively with surfactants that have alot of NaCi like cocamidopropyl Betaine. So that’s my next try.
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Yes I have pictures a few aren’t very clear. The ones that aren’t clear the guar is floating around. And each one feels like water, they do not feel thick. I even tried one at 1% which is the one you can see clearly. I tried at PH 4.5, PH 6, PH 4.3 they all feel like water.
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Thank you!! I will try your suggestion today.
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Hi there, unfortunately the Cationic guar gum still landed to the bottom. I even took out the fragrance and made just a simple recipe. I tried your way plus another, I added the water, glycerin and the surfactants together. Then made sure the PH was 5.9 before adding the guar. Then while mixing added the preservative. Allowed to rest for a few hours and guar still separated to the bottom. I am using Cationic Guar from Lotions Crafter “Ashland” do you think I should try a different brand?
Water 50.5%
Glycerin 4%
Decyl Glucoside 15%
Coco Betain 29%
Cationic Guar Gum 0.5%
Preservative 1%
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Thank you! I will be trying it now.
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Thank you! So can the formula be stable without the glycerol oleate?
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The PH of the guar was different each time I tested. I tried with PH below 7 and then above 8. I also adjusted the water to be acidic before adding the guar to the water. And I also tried adjusting the PH of the surfactant phase to see if that was the issue. Nothing seems to be working guar gum seems very hard to work with.
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Thank you! I also tried removing the Almond Oil today but I got the same results with the guar gum separating and clumping. It actually floated to the top rather than the bottom. Do you think its the tool I am using to mix the guar gum in? I am using an emulsion blender. I am wondering if the guar is not being mixed at a high enough speed.
