[Paprik]

Thanks guys. 

I thought more of tetrasodium EDTA or silimar.  

[Paprik]

Crack up guys … crack up 

[Paprik]

Emollients: All good to me.

Humectants: All good to me.

Emulsifiers: 
Coco Glucoside, to me, it’s a foaming surfactant. Doesn’t suit emulsions at all. 
Glyceryl Stearate is mainly for W/O emulsion. It can help with reducing the foaming, but you don’t have any proper emulsifier. Cetearyl alcohol by itself it not sufficient enough. Why you don’t use a high HLB waxy blend + low input of the low HLB GS?
Have you worked with Carbomers before? If you going to adjust pH at the end, no point of having Carbomer in your formula. 

Preservation:
0.1% of Tocopherol won’t be enough probably. Coconut oil has quite good oxidative stability, but still should be protected. Mango butter as well. I would go for 0.4% of the actual tocopherol. (So if you’re using 70% Toco, you would add around 0.6%)
DMDM Hydantoin is an anti-bacterial predominantly with some anti-fungal activity. It really needs to be combined with an anti-fungal to have good, strong broad spectrum activity. (From experiences)

[Paprik]

I usually use chelator everywhere (except obvious formulas such as cationic system, W/O … ).
First of all, I have it on hand (plenty of it and such a small amount is used), it’s cheap and it helps preservative and antioxidant.  

[Paprik]

But if you would ask which one I like more, No. 2 is the answer  

1. usage between 0.75 - 1.5%, pH range 4-8. heat stable “only” to 80°C
2. usage between 0.5 - 1%, pH range <12, heat stable.

[Paprik]

You can’t really tell if the preservative would be sufficient unless you conduct PET (preservative efficacy testing). I’ve never worked with Germall Plus, but did work with Liquid Germall Plus. At 0.5% [Maximum input] I’ve never experienced any growth (at least eye visible - mold, spots, etc … ). If they say Germall plus does not work well in sprayers, I would not go for it. 

If you are home maker, always go for the maximum recommended input. 

Germall Plus is heat sensitive (50°C), do not heat and hold.. If you use clean distilled water, clean equipment etc, you should be fine for cold processing. 

Humectants input - depends. You need to check supplier’s recommended input.
Glycerin - 1- 10% (over 5% will feel sticky/tacky). 
Sodium PCA - 2-5% (more expensive, but high performance, works good with Sodium Hyaluronate)
Propylene Glycol - 1 - 10% (up to 20%?)
Propanediol - 1 -10% (not tacky, I like this one)

and so on. Hope that helps.

[Paprik]

Hello, 

please check this link. 
https://chemistscorner.com/cosmeticsciencetalk/discussion/137/need-formulating-services-here-are-some-contacts#latest

Your question is too open, unfortunately we cannot teach you, as most of us spent thousands of hours learning and thousands of dollars for our education.

One thing tho, the purpose of shampoo is to remove oil and dirt. If you want to add oils/butters into your formula, you are basically ruining the purpose. 
Stick to 1% maximum. (That goes for everything from oil phase - antioxidant if you are using plant oils/butters, fragrance, … )

[Paprik]

@Abdullah - Phenoxyethanol’s boiling point is 247°C. So I don’t think this would evaporate (it does have really low evaporation according to google ). About essence, yes, this would probably evaporate. 
To me, even 0.1% of fragrance in my shower gel is too much.

@Perry - Yeah, I’m still naive and think that everyone is following regulations properly.  
 

[Paprik]

This is actually a good point. 

Coca-betaine is usually 30% solids, around 5% salt and water (and possibly preservative?). 
And I found that Disodium Cocoyl Glutamate is also around 30-35% solids, the rest water. 
Na PCA, Glycerin, EDTA are heat tolerant. 

As it’s water thin, is self-foaming pump used for this product?

[Paprik]

Not to question Perry’s guess (God protect me :smiley: ), but he missed the Sodium PCA. 
If Coca-betaine would be 2%, so does must be Na PCA or higher. 

Glutamates don’t foam very well and also don’t thicken with salt. 
However Taurates do foam well and thicken well with salt and as this is water thin, there must be really low input. 

Preservative is probably Biopol PB6 (Methylparaben, Ethylparaben, Propylparaben, Phenoxyethanol) - typical usage 0.5 - 1.4%. 

Disodium EDTA - 0.1?

My guess:
90% Water
3% Disodium Glutamate
2% Glycerin
1% Na PCA
1% Coca-betaine
1% SMCT
1.4% - Preservative
0.6% The rest of the formula. 

Also, only guess.   

[Paprik]

Also, your preservation is not good enough. Phenoxyethanol by itself is not sufficient enough. 

[Paprik]

kconley said:

thank you. Hexanediol CG s not cheap. Do i really need it? The formula has it at 3%? The preservative (i think germell plus) is already on the list if ingredients 

I don’t think Liquid Germall plus is on the IL. It’s Euxyl PE 9010.
Also, I would not include any fragrance into eye product, as the skin is very thin and easily irritated. Just my opinion  

[Paprik]

Hi,

you can add HEC straight into cold water and either high shear it for a prolong time or neutralise (alkaline) it to pH>7. Once fully hydrated, you can bring the pH lower again. 

Hope that helps.

[Paprik]

It really depends, please supply the full formula and method. 
SCI is hard to work with, it does take a lot of time to dissolve. 

You can already get rid of the castor oil and try to swap EO for fragrance. Then you could also remove vit E.
I got scared when I saw Polyquat-7 on secondplace, thought you wrote down an ingredients list  

[Paprik]

During my studies with IPCS, they warned us to be carefully with those really thin and flimsy packaging. If you are not sure, simply make 10% solution of the preservative, fill the packaging, leave it and see if it does something. 

[Paprik]

Hi, 

could you share your process/method? 
And your ingredients? 

[Paprik]

jemolian said:

@Paprik there shouldn’t be that many changes to the text i think.

It’s from this page https://www.dropbox.com/s/e3mor9eu436rtiu/Screen%20Shot%2006-24-21%20at%2008.43%20AM.PNG?dl=0

*I’ll delete it after a few days.

Oh gosh, you are right!! This is embarrassing I guess I’ll re-visit this unit. 

Thanks for reminding me! 

[Paprik]

jemolian said:

@Abdullah it should be the text from the lipids module from Institute of Personal Care Science

You sure? I’m studying with IPCS and there is nothing like this. Unless it is some kind of old version? But we have nothing like this there. (I have already done lipids). [Which kinda sucks, haha. This looks gooood]

[Paprik]

For me? Neither, haha. Argan is “greasy” and heavy and Jojoba, as been said, is a wax. [Argan would be great for drier more mature skin]

Grapeseed oil, Hemp seed oil, Rosehip Oil … those should be your picks

[Paprik]

Here’s a Technical data sheet. Hope that will help you.  

[Paprik]

Thank you @Perry for your opinion and sorry for sharing these misinformation. However, I remember it wasn’t from any mommy blogs or so. That is why it stuck in my head. I know silicones are perfectly fine for face and body, but about hair I don’t know much yet. So good to know!   

PS. I think you would want to use silicones for the hair length, not for the roots anyway, right?

[Paprik]

@perry is right! It is about Keratin treatments. 
I’ve recently made a conditioner and everyone loved it. Then, they started to ask me for a salt free shampoo. I also had no idea why, but they explained it to me. It’s all about the Keratin. A lot of my friends in here are Brazilians and they do a lot of those treatments.
There is not many salt free shampoos in NZ, sooooo it may be a good area to investigate and strike  

[Paprik]

I think the only proven ingredient for hair grow is Minoxidil. 

In my opinion, no oil can help with grow.
I even read an articles talking about silicones in hair care products and it said, that silicone prevents water loss too well, that in the end the hair follicle swells and dies. 

[Paprik]

Thanks guys, I thought so, thus was chasing the % composition so I can do my IL correctly. I’ve emailed Seppic, let’s see if they will share it.

However, what if not? MakingCosmetics already told me, they won’t give me the % composition for the ICE Silicone, therefore I cannot include it officially into my products. 

[Paprik]

MarkBroussard said:

@Paprik:

If you contact Seppic directly and ask for a Compositional Analysis on Montanov 202, they will provide it to you.  As @Microformulation said, it will be in ranges for each of the component ingredients, but that will give you enough information if you require it for preparing your label.  Most companies will not provide you with the exact amounts of each component, but a range.  Sometimes this information is in the SDS, sometimes not.

Thank you mate! Appreciate it.