[Paprik]

kconley said:

thank you. Hexanediol CG s not cheap. Do i really need it? The formula has it at 3%? The preservative (i think germell plus) is already on the list if ingredients 

I don’t think Liquid Germall plus is on the IL. It’s Euxyl PE 9010.
Also, I would not include any fragrance into eye product, as the skin is very thin and easily irritated. Just my opinion  

[Paprik]

Hi,

you can add HEC straight into cold water and either high shear it for a prolong time or neutralise (alkaline) it to pH>7. Once fully hydrated, you can bring the pH lower again. 

Hope that helps.

[Paprik]

It really depends, please supply the full formula and method. 
SCI is hard to work with, it does take a lot of time to dissolve. 

You can already get rid of the castor oil and try to swap EO for fragrance. Then you could also remove vit E.
I got scared when I saw Polyquat-7 on secondplace, thought you wrote down an ingredients list  

[Paprik]

During my studies with IPCS, they warned us to be carefully with those really thin and flimsy packaging. If you are not sure, simply make 10% solution of the preservative, fill the packaging, leave it and see if it does something. 

[Paprik]

Hi, 

could you share your process/method? 
And your ingredients? 

[Paprik]

jemolian said:

@Paprik there shouldn’t be that many changes to the text i think.

It’s from this page https://www.dropbox.com/s/e3mor9eu436rtiu/Screen%20Shot%2006-24-21%20at%2008.43%20AM.PNG?dl=0

*I’ll delete it after a few days.

Oh gosh, you are right!! This is embarrassing I guess I’ll re-visit this unit. 

Thanks for reminding me! 

[Paprik]

jemolian said:

@Abdullah it should be the text from the lipids module from Institute of Personal Care Science

You sure? I’m studying with IPCS and there is nothing like this. Unless it is some kind of old version? But we have nothing like this there. (I have already done lipids). [Which kinda sucks, haha. This looks gooood]

[Paprik]

For me? Neither, haha. Argan is “greasy” and heavy and Jojoba, as been said, is a wax. [Argan would be great for drier more mature skin]

Grapeseed oil, Hemp seed oil, Rosehip Oil … those should be your picks

[Paprik]

Here’s a Technical data sheet. Hope that will help you.  

[Paprik]

Thank you @Perry for your opinion and sorry for sharing these misinformation. However, I remember it wasn’t from any mommy blogs or so. That is why it stuck in my head. I know silicones are perfectly fine for face and body, but about hair I don’t know much yet. So good to know!   

PS. I think you would want to use silicones for the hair length, not for the roots anyway, right?

[Paprik]

@perry is right! It is about Keratin treatments. 
I’ve recently made a conditioner and everyone loved it. Then, they started to ask me for a salt free shampoo. I also had no idea why, but they explained it to me. It’s all about the Keratin. A lot of my friends in here are Brazilians and they do a lot of those treatments.
There is not many salt free shampoos in NZ, sooooo it may be a good area to investigate and strike  

[Paprik]

I think the only proven ingredient for hair grow is Minoxidil. 

In my opinion, no oil can help with grow.
I even read an articles talking about silicones in hair care products and it said, that silicone prevents water loss too well, that in the end the hair follicle swells and dies. 

[Paprik]

Thanks guys, I thought so, thus was chasing the % composition so I can do my IL correctly. I’ve emailed Seppic, let’s see if they will share it.

However, what if not? MakingCosmetics already told me, they won’t give me the % composition for the ICE Silicone, therefore I cannot include it officially into my products. 

[Paprik]

MarkBroussard said:

@Paprik:

If you contact Seppic directly and ask for a Compositional Analysis on Montanov 202, they will provide it to you.  As @Microformulation said, it will be in ranges for each of the component ingredients, but that will give you enough information if you require it for preparing your label.  Most companies will not provide you with the exact amounts of each component, but a range.  Sometimes this information is in the SDS, sometimes not.

Thank you mate! Appreciate it. 

[Paprik]

I’m in NZ. I think we follow EU regulations in this matter.

I know how to make an ingredient list, I just got surprised, that there are some ingredients, where they don’t list individual input. So wanted to know how to deal with it. (For my study, I had to do IL, but they supply me with all info needed).

Ok, I will list it as is and on the correct % place. 

Thanks!  

[Paprik]

Thank you guys @Microformulation and @Graillotion. 
No problem with finding the INCI names, but the percentage of each component is the issue.
They don’t even provide the range, that would be good enough. 

This a section 3 of SDS:

Or how would do proceed with creating ingredient list without this kind of information? [And still comply with regulations?]

[Paprik]

You will need to use gum a polymer to thicken your product then. I don’t think there is another solution, unless you are really lucky with the pH (perfect combination of surfactants).

[Paprik]

emma1985 said:

raiyana said:

I dont make lipsticks, but i do make diy cleansing balms and cleansing oil for my friends and family. Water free formula.

I used to have issues like this but now my cleansing balms dont go rancid as fast. The one i made 2 years ago still smell okay.

What i did, i changed most of my plant oils to synthetic ingredients. The products mostly made of:
Caprylic capric triglyceride
Mineral oil
C12-15 Alkyl benzoate
Isododecane
Some sunflower oil and castor oil
Other plant oils (i limit to 1% max)
BHT as antioxadant at 0.1%
Fragrance and essential oils (max 0.05%)
For natural wax, i only use white beeswax

I dont use preservatives as long as the product is kept away from water and stored properly (not in the bathroom!) Never had any mold. But my “clients” are just friends and family and i always remind them to keep the products dry.

Not to derail the discussion, but I’m wondering if you have any issues with syneresis? (Precipitation of oils due to non-compatible polarity.) I ask because isododecane is highly non-polar, whereas some of your other ingredients are polar (like sunflower seed oil.)

I’ve recently started experimenting with Rice Bran Wax as it is said to prevent syneresis, and it’s going well so far!

I’m interested in trying microcrystalline wax as well, right now I’m using emulsifying waxes, Rice Bran Wax, Cetyl Alcohol and Stearic Acid. Are you happy with the microcrystalline wax?

ETA. Sorry, I see someone already asked about syneresis LoL. Ignore.

I would actually like to have an answer for this So good you asked too!  

[Paprik]

CAPB is usually around 30% dilution. The rest is water with possible preservative … That’s what @ngarayeva001 meant by “as supplied”.

If you add 2% into formula, you’ll have 0.6% of actual CAPB in finish product. Do you think it’s enough to create a foam?  

[Paprik]

I actually think Sepimax ZEN will work. It is really electrolytes resistant, you can do nearly anything to it and it works. It is really easy material to work with, foolproof.
The only way to ho test it out tho is to try it. Good luck, let us know

[Paprik]

Nice sum from @ngarayeva001. I’m for HA too. It gives you also space for claims and performance. 
Or really nice grade of XG, however .. yeah, it’s just XG. Leave this one for stabilising

[I’m using 0.4% of low MW HA and it gives really serum like consistency and slip. Too much slip to my liking ]

[Paprik]

Hi,
 
no, it shouldn’t. pH higher than 10 and lower than 3 is self-preserving.

[Paprik]

This is not only based on pH. 
Taurates should be easily thickened by salt. I don’t see any NaCl in your formula. ? 

What you’re trying to reach, is different type/shape of micelles. You are basically reducing the head group size, so it can form cylindrical shape. Those can tangle when mixed and this is what’s building viscosity. 

Start to add salt in 0.3-0.5% increments, mix thoroughly and see what’s happening. Once you reach your desired viscosity, stop adding salt, record the amount and re-do the sample with updated formula. (If you would add too much salt, micelles could turn into bilayer and this would turn your product water thin again) 

Hope that helps.

[Paprik]

Also, add the tocopherol right before pouring it. 
Meaning, heat all ingredients, melt everything and wait as long as you can, so the temperature drops, add Toco, mix and pour. 

Let us know how it goes. 
Do you have an incubator or something? That you could do accelerated testing? 

[Paprik]

You would need to conduct some testing to find out. 
You are adding 50% actual Tocopherol, I would definitely try to add 1% of actual Tocopherol, therefore 2% of T-50. And see how it goes.