ngarayeva001
Forum Replies Created
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My first thought was that hydroxysultaine changes charge at acidic pH, but it never happened before. All surfactant products I have ever made contain some amphoteric surfactant and all of them are < pH 7…
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Guys, can anyone advise what can be used instead of PEG-10 Isostearate? This banila’s formula doesn’t let me sleep at night. I approached it 10 times probably. I try, fail, give up and try again after a couple of months for a year already.
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@essenceofllama, sounds like banila clean it zero. I tried to reverse engineer it multiple times but not quite successful. I know where to get Cithrol 10GTIS: https://www.theformulary.co.uk/product/cithrol-10gtis/ I agree 10-15% is more reasonable (10 if you add another surfactant)
and here you can buy polyethene: https://www.glamourcosmetics.it/gb/gc-polyperform (they had cithrol too but I can’t find it anymore). You need 20% of polyethene to get banila’s consistency.
I can’t find PEG-10 isostearate anywhere and it seems like it’s crucial for the formula. I tried poly 80 instead of it but it didn’t work. I think the problem is that it’s too polar to work well with polyethene but I might be wrong. Try it and let us know if it works.
Re: preservatives, just add some Euxyl PE9010 to be safe. I must admit I don’t add it to anhydrous formulas that I make for my own use and I know for sure I will use quickly, but you need it for a balm because you probably will scoop it out with wet fingers one day when you are lazy to use a spatula.
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This is an example of well working stable sulfate-free and very cost-efficient formula:
INCI % a- Aqua 44.9% a- Disodium EDTA 0.2% a- Germall plus
powder0.2% a- Glycerin 2.0% a- Polyquat 10 0.5% b- Sodium C14-16
Olefin Sulfonate35.0% b- Decyl
Glucoside3.0% b- Fragrance 0.7% c- Polyquat 7 0.5% c- PEG-7 Glyceryl Cocoate 1.5% c-CAPB 10.0% c- Crothix 1.5% c- Citric Acid qs Polyquat 10 should be slurried in glycerin and added to water.
Fragrance (and oils at a small amount) should be added directly to Sodium C14-16 Olefin Sulfonate. In my experience, this particular surfactant can solubilise up to 1.5% of oils without any extra solubilisers (the second best option is SLES).
CAPB should be added in the very end. Mix all ingredients in phase a, separately mix all ingredients in phase b, mix a and b together and add c one by one.
It responds to NaCl but not much.
It’s a cold process and it takes 20 minutes to make 1 lt.
No gums are needed at all. -
You will never make that transparent leave aside stable. Even if it looks ok now, you will get sediment and loss of viscosity at some point.
1) SCI is not designed to be used at 5% in a liquid product. It would only work as part of a commercially made blend. Solution: replace with Sodium Lauroyl Methyl Isethionate.
2) You have too many unnecessary claim ingredients that do not add any benefits to a rinse-off product. Solution: remove all of that coconut water, oil, allantoin, panthenol, tocopherol, propanediol, etc. Create a stable prototype, and only then add them back (at a minimum %).
3) Is that peg 150 disterate from makingcosmetics that you need to melt? It’s very hard to work with. I am not saying it’s bad or wrong thickener for this formula, but if you can, use Crothix Liquid instead.
4) The preservative you are using is not the best for surfactant products. Phenoxyethanol can have a very negative impact on viscosity. Solution: for surfactant products nothing can beat Germall Plus (in my humble opinion).
5) Although there is nothing wrong with sulfates and SLSa is on the mild side, it is still a sulfate. -
Just use Hydroquinone. It is much safer and proven to work, mercury is banned for a reason.
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The question is why? What do you expect it to do?
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I have 3% of Cyclopentasiloxane and some dimethicone (either 1 or 2%) in a hair conditioner with BTMS as the only emulsifier. Behentrimonium Chloride does too. I have just checked the one I made in June, and there’s no signs of separation.
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No, it doesn’t work for L-Ascorbic Acid. The only way to stabilise it is to make the formula anhydrous. I have not had issues with Glucosamine in water based serums.
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Thank you very much, Perry!
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Try the following combination: oil phase around 15%, GMS/PEG-100 stearate as a main emulsifier, cetearyl/cetyl alcohol at 3%, 0.5% of Aristoflex AVC, 0.2% of Sodium Carbomer. It’s what creates one of the most expensive chanel’s moisturizers. Took me several months to reverse engineer it.
Aristoflex and Sodium Carbomer works good together.
I understand, I also only have a chance to formulate on weekends recently. -
@Perry, if I am not mistaken I think you mentioned some ingredient for topical application (that’s a drug not cosmetics) that works for something like 70% of population on one of the recent episodes of thebeautybrains. What was it?
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Regarding the process, usually w/o are made by slow addition of water (pretty much by drops) to oil/emulsifier phase under low shear. Can be done via both cold and hot process depending on materials. Cera bellina needs heating obviously but if your emulsifier is liquid usually it’s ok to add without heating. I am more familiar with high internal phase emulsifiers, that also require high shear after emulsification is done (it adds viscosity), but when I started learning how to make w/o emulsions I made one with GMS (not SE the regular one) and polyglyceryl -4 oleate without applying high shear and it looked fine (I observed it for 2 months and it didn’t seep). It looked like soft medicinal ointment.
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Polyglyceryl-3 beeswax isn’t a real emulsifier although it has some emulsification properties but an oil gellant and a good stabiliser for w/o emulsions. Although you can keep it as a rheology modifier if you want to thicken up this product you need a proper w/o emulsifier. There are plenty of them, I would say polyglyceryl-4 oleate or sorbitan oleate are easy to find and inexpensive options but there are many others.
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Totally support the previous comment about Sepimax Zen. A great solution for the systems high in electrolytes. Regarding Sepinov EMT 10, yes it’s better than, say, Aristoflex AVC but still not tolerant enough.
Although some would say it’s anecdotal evidence I had a negative experience with grapeseed oil and also prefer esters. -
There is one little exception from this rule I believe. Hydrolysed proteins are quite useful in face washes, not because they moisturise the skin (as brands usually claim) but because they create a film that reduces the harshness of surfactants. As per my understanding, the film doesn’t stay on the face.
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Try 15-20% of Polysorbate 80 and 80% of Alkyl Benzoate. You might also want to add some cithrol 10gtis (the PEG-20 I mentioned above) for waterproof makeup remover. Apply on dry(important) face, massage to dissolve makeup and rinse. You can add fragrance if you want. This combo also works great as blooming bath oil. Alkyl Benzoate is very useful ingredient in general. It can be used as a replacement for oils in pretty much any o/w emulsion.
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You need to play with proportions because everyone’s perception of what is oily and what isn’t is different
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That preservative(phenoxy SA) is the worst of all I have ever had. I am not talking about it’s efficacy but the way it messes with overall formula. If you are ordering from makingcosmetics, get Paraben DU also known as Germaben II. There’s also Germall plus that is great for surfactants.
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It really depends on the packaging in this case. It might be ok in a tube, but if it’s going to be packaged in a jar and scooped out with wet fingers not adding preservatives is asking for a trouble.
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Almost not, also it’s quite cheap, materials are easy to find, and gentle on eyes. You can use Polysorbate 80 as the only emulsifier. I tested multiple number of other oils but Alkyl benzoate works the best.
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I have countless number of emulsifiers but these three are the ones I always have and repurchase when running out. Plus sodium carbomer because I am too lazy to neutralize regular carbomers.
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Yes, they all are worth it. I think Aristoflex is my favorite because it creates a fantastic luxurious texture (check list of ingredients of all Chanel moisturizers, they use it for a reason). The problem with Aristoflex is that it doesn’t tolerate any electrolytes and can only emulsify 5% of oil, so if Sepinov can be considered a standalone emulsifier Aristoflex is more of a texture enhancer. You can mix Aristoflex with Zen, carbomers, or any other stabilisers.
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The most gentle materials are usually the synthetic ones. The least irritating preservatives are parabens, are the safest oil to use on new born babies is mineral oil. There’s a huge amount of disinformation in the internet, and people with zero scientific background spread nonsense and fear mongering about ‘toxic chemicals’. Always check the source.
Having said that, you need to answer what format you are looking for, because there are many types of makeup removers. If you ask me, I prefer oil cleansers, because they remove water proof makeup. I like combination of Polysorbate 80, PEG-20 glyceryl triisostearate and C12-15 Alkyl benzoate (as simple as just three ingredients). If you want micellar water, there quite a nice material PEG-6 Caprylic/Capric Glycerides. There are many other options depending on desired format.