[ngarayeva001]

When I hear body butter, I think L’Occitane and Body Shop. You probably would classify both as a greasy mess, though. Maybe play with oils and thickeners. For example, behenyl alcohol instead of cetyl alcohol and IPM (something dry) as the main emollient.

[ngarayeva001]

It doesn’t feel like silicone, but one of the most unique so-called natural emollients I tried is cetiol ultimate (undecane and tridecane). It’s a good alternative to D5 in foundations. I actually like it better than D5 in terms of feel (which is very unusual for me, as I strongly prefer “synthetics”). It’s not very shelf stable, though. Having said that, I haven’t seen it often in sunscreens.

[ngarayeva001]

Polybutene from TKB is a good ingredient, but it’s much stickier and thicker than castor oil. Get both if you can. Depending on the preferred finish, you might want to try octyldodecanol (satin/glossy finish) and isododecane (very matt and powdery finish, think mac powder kiss lipstick)

[ngarayeva001]

Diisostearyl Malate is what you are looking for. It is much better than castor oil in terms of pigment-dispersing properties too.

https://www.myskinrecipes.com/shop/th/ester-%E0%B8%82%E0%B8%B1%E0%B9%89%E0%B8%A7%E0%B8%AA%E0%B8%B9%E0%B8%87-high-polar/1207-diisostearyl-malate.html

[ngarayeva001]

Hydrosols cause preservation challenges, so I would avoid them.

[ngarayeva001]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CZ9yTqRoSr3/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

I tried it as a gel once and it worked. There’s also a video by makingskicare above where it gels. Something must be wrong either with your process or the ingredient. I bought mine from an Italian supplier.

[ngarayeva001]

You need 20-30% of it to gel. Also put it to the fridge to hydrate properly. I personally never use it as a gel. I use it in micellar water at 1-2%.

[ngarayeva001]

Have you considered go polymeric completely? For example Pemulen EZ4U + Sepinov/Zen. 

[ngarayeva001]

I can’t usually see much use for cationic materials outside of hair care but  you should check that supplier. They have almost anything you might want to buy. Very good customer service, they provide all MSDSs and deliver to the UK within just a week. Shipping cost for me is cheaper than when I order from the US. 

[ngarayeva001]

That would likely separate unfortunately. Suggestions: ditch glycols (unless used as preservative boosters), CETAC to water phase and check limits for leave on products, find emulsified version of amodimethicone (there’s plenty with pareths ceteths etc), coconut oil to be reduced to 0.01%(for label appeal only), cetearyl OH to be reduced to 1%, considered adding some cationic polymer to waterphase (polyquats, cationic guar etc)

[ngarayeva001]

An update! I ordered aminopropyl dimethicone and tried it in a very generic hair conditioner at 4% (to minimize inputs of other ingredients). The conditioning is on a new level! Thank you @Pharma

[ngarayeva001]

@Paprik old fashioned cold creams are made like this. You solely rely on immediate saponification reaction between stearic acid and a base where either  TEA stearate or Sodium Stearate is formed. Your base goes to the water phase with other ingredients. You don’t put TEA stearate in your beakers, it’s being created as you mix water and oil phases. This approach is still used in some products like mascaras (even by high end brands) although majority of commercial products rely on ready non ionic emulsifiers (the 165, peg-40 stearate, ceteareth-20 etc).  Since it’s not an actual soap you don’t need to wait for several weeks for reaction to happen. Also the temperature at the moment of emulsification is high (stearic acid should be melted) which make it slightly more similar to a hot process soap. High temperature speeds up the reaction and hot process soaps can be used soon after they are made (cold process soaps are cured for weeks to let reaction happen).

[ngarayeva001]

Sorry is that PEG-40 solvent or PEG-40 Stearate emulsifier?

[ngarayeva001]

I have a couple of comments on overall aesthetics of the product not stability: 1) you might want to consider dropping  petrolatum down to 5-7% and replacing the rest with mineral oil (so much petrolatum isn’t often necessary) 2) if you have an nonionic o/w emulsifier try that instead of relying of TEA stearate/sodium stearate (you can bring ph down without consequences for stability this way) 3) ditch stearic acid completely, it’s draggy and causes a lot of soaping.

[ngarayeva001]

Don’t know about the US but here’s a supplier in Thailand that ships: https://www.myskinrecipes.com/shop/en/hair-perm-relaxer/9238-glyoxylic-acid-50.html 

[ngarayeva001]

I mixed these two ingredients in a transparent formula and had no issues. Having said that I also had an anionic surfactant (tried in several sulfate free formulas).

[ngarayeva001]

@Pharma thank you very much! I checked all silicones they had in June as I was placing an order and it’s either new addition or I managed to miss it! I am going to order and hope it’s similar.

[ngarayeva001]

ketchito said:

@Red_Head Why would you think Dimethicone deposits better than Bis-aminopropyl dimethicone? Amine functionalized dimethicones deposit at some level through interaction with binding sites on hair. Bis-aminopropyl dimethicone has two binding sites (compared to single amino dimethicones), helping it deposit better and more selectively. Also, when positively charged, it also helps form a more even film on hair, avoiding overdeposition.

I usually prefer conditioners and serums of my own making to anything commercial but whenever I find a product with bis-aminopropyl dimethicone I buy it. I have a crush on this silicone

[ngarayeva001]

If you like that conditioner try this https://www.pantene.co.uk/en-gb/hair-products/hair-treatments/rescue-shots/ bis-aminopropyl dimethicone is a second ingredient. I have been looking for it for months but it’s not sold at small quantities anywhere I know.

[ngarayeva001]

@Abdullah, I read IPBCis advised not to be used in body creams to limit the exposure. I don’t know how justified is that but mentioning it as something to be checked (there are max usage limits in some jurisdictions too I believe)

[ngarayeva001]

Have you considered using a class of preservatives that was selected a non-allergen of the year  by American Contact Dermatitis Society in 2019? Also well researched and effective. Also advised by several respected professionals in this thread.

[ngarayeva001]

Have you got a microscope? It might worth the investment if you are interested in droplets size/shape. SWIFT Microscope Compound Trinocular SW350T, Research-Grade for Lab, 40X-2500X Magnification, with Wide-Field 10X, 25X Eyepieces, Siedentopf Head, Camera-Compatible, Mechanical Stage, Abbe Condenser https://amzn.eu/d/1fNsmTb

[ngarayeva001]

Liquid SLES is 27% usually. CABP varies but let’s guess it’s 35%: (0.15*0.27)+(0.08*0.35)=6.8%You don’t have enough even for a face wash. Up active mass to 13-15% and it should thinken.

[ngarayeva001]

as supplied or active surfactant mass?

[ngarayeva001]

Attached is chapter 2.4 of the book called Chemistry and Technology of Cosmetics and Toiletries Industry by Williams and Schmitt. You might find it useful.

In summary, most conditioners have similar components:

1. cationic emulsifier (one or more)
2. additional non-ionic emulsifier for stability
3. fatty alcohol
4. some sort of emollient - usually a silicone (dimethicone 2-3%)
5. additives such as cationic polymers (polyquaternium 7 or 10)
6. preservation system

The most common emulsifiers are BTMS, Behentrimonium Chloride and Cetrimonium Chloride. You can also see Stearamidopropyl Dimethylamine (typically better for thin hair) pretty often.
Which one to use depends on hair type and I find Behentrimonium Chloride to be the most conditioning. BTMS comes in different concentrations 25% and 50% being the most common. I once bought BTMS 80 but it has a very high melting point which makes it tricky to work with.

I suggest you start with BTMS-25 as it’s easy to work with and depending on desired viscosity you might not even need fatty alcohol (it has it included). It is also easy to find and less expensive than 50.

In terms of polymers, keep in mind that polyquat 10 can vary from supplier to supplier a lot. It can be more or less cationic and vary a lot in viscosity, so maybe start with polyquat 7.

Check supplier’s documentation in terms of processing. Conditioners often don’t like high shear.

D5 works great in conditioners but now it’s restricted in wash-off products for its toxicity for aquatic life, so stick to dimethicone.

Do not overload your conditioner with vegetable oils. Those are added for consumer appeal at negligible amounts (lower than 1%)

Also, you can go as minimalistic as this: 

Aqua (Water), Cetearyl Alcohol, Behentrimonium Chloride, Cyamopsis Tetragonoloba (Guar) Gum, Phytic Acid, Phenoxyethanol, Chlorphenesin.

https://theordinary.com/en-gb/behentrimonium-chloride-2-conditioner-100409.html