Microformulation
Forum Replies Created
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Perry has posted on this over multiple posts. You needn’t call anything soap related “natural.” Many are derived from plant sources. “Natural”, in my experience, is a term that must be defined to some extent to be of any real use. (Different Topic).
We have experimented with Soapberry-based Surfactants. There are even some starting Formulations out there. However, our experience with a surfactant solely based on soapberry is that it underperforms and it will generally not give you the sensorials the consumer wants.
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You would need to post a Formulation in order to get a useful answer. Many ducts can cause precipitation. It is very Formula dependent.
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PhilGeis said:@Microformulation
They received > 200 questions. hope they’ll answer those they canIn my experience, those 200 questions usually distill down to 20 or so lucid questions, repeats of the same question, and questions from those who don’t have the foundation to follow the webinar.
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@MarkBroussard They are sending a recording of the seminar and the slides at some point. I will post the links.
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Great Webinar. Lots of good information.
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GoldenFish said:@MarkBroussard & @Microformulation Thank you gentlemen for the information. I wanted something more than tribal knowledge which can muddy over time.
If your “group” couldn’t find the standards and relies upon tribal knowledge, they may not be the group to be in.
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We worked on a Hand Balm. A legacy Formula was provided and they used tallow in the product. Once they began sales, they did get some pushback. They reformulated for this reason as well as some issues they were having in obtaining consistent stocks of the tallow to support larger manufacturer runs.
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RobboAU said:Microformulation said:Cocoa Butter was also used a great deal in Pharmaceutical Compounding as well. To this day whenever I smell it, I can recall making hundreds of suppositories in the Pharmacy back in the early 80s.
Interesting, does that mean I’ve been taking chocolate the wrong way this hole time?
Maybe.I was working at a Compounding Pharmacy in the 80’s. We had a Cancer Physician who would have almost everything compounded and we made a lot of different anti-emetic suppositories. Curing them was crucial. In Freshman Orientation you got your scale, set of weights, other stuff, and 2 suppository molds. -
Cocoa Butter was also used a great deal in Pharmaceutical Compounding as well. To this day whenever I smell it, I can recall making hundreds of suppositories in the Pharmacy back in the early 80s.
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Abdullah said:@Perry @MarkBroussard @Microformulation @Pharma
What surprises me is that why you professional chemists don’t use AHA( lactic or glycolic acid) Products?Specially, why are you not making it by yourself?
This way you know it is very inexpensive and effective. Isn’t it?With a full beard and no real skin issues, it isn’t needed.Rockstargirl said:I feel like once you’ve seen “behind the curtain” we don’t use that much. I’ll make stuff to try a new material and use it once and then move on. I’m not that consistent.Couldn’t agree more.
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I’m with Perry. If I didn’t informally try my products in development, it would be Walgreens for me.
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This question has been going around for years and has been asked of Schulke Technical Services on numerous occasions. They have not seen inactivation and feel that as part of a proper Preservation SYSTEM. We used it a great deal without any issues in testing or post-market. We have moved away from it in the past 24-36 months simply due to the undeserved market pushback on Phenoxyethanol.Polysorbates are used to inactivate preservatives in testing so I am going to tag the person I know who knows more about preservation than anybody, @@PhilGeis
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Great points all around. I will say that in many cases I will read through the Forum and have an answer readily available to many/most of the posts. However, I don’t answer unless the OP has shown that they have engaged in some research of their own also. Too many see this as a “Call Center” (good analogy Dr. Pratt) to post quick questions.Cosmetic Chemistry is a HUGE subject that spans multiple other disciplines as well. It requires continual learning. I would wager that most Professional Chemists follow several Journals, blogs, and will watch numerous webinars. If you want to succeed, you need to establish the Fundamentals and research using good sources, NOT GOOGLE.Simply, you will get more from this Forum if you pursue a great deal of independent study and seek mentorship from Professionals. Asking for specific, targeted, and involved information (Call Center) really begins to become paid work BUT more importantly is a barrier to Professional Development.
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We had our Attorney draw up our Work-For-Hire Contracts and they are critical from a Business sense. They delineate what services the client is paying for etc. This is hugely critical with some lines as Marketing Departments are known for adding extra unpaid work on a whim.Our form is IP but honestly, we started with a Rocket Lawyer template and then retained an attorney to make it valid and clear. https://www.rocketlawyer.com/sem/work-for-hire-agreement?id=97&partnerid=103&cid=15571735582&adgid=132376577418&loc_int=&loc_phys=1025666&mt=b&ntwk=g&dv=c&adid=347622084635&kw=work%20agreement%20template&adpos=&plc=&trgt=&trgtid=kwd-4944346054&gclid=EAIaIQobChMImq2VrYGL_AIVGbrICh3Uawx3EAAYASAAEgLny_D_BwE
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PhilGeis said:Can you offer a link to the drone stuff?
It’s a marketing term with no real scientific basis. Back in 2018, a line started using this “terminology” to describe the delivery of actives with nanomaterials and liposomes. GlyMed uses the marketing also.
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Products rubbed on the gums ‘could” have some buccal absorption. This is of note since it would bypass the liver’s first-pass metabolism. Many compounds can be administered in this manner.
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The PDF of the Lawsuit is available here; https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi0_Orhw9H7AhWLk2oFHY_MCTsQFnoECBEQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Ftruthinadvertising.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2022%2F11%2FFinster-v-Sephora-complaint.pdf&usg=AOvVaw1nbBW2NbQxdhFyTu1ZMOdR
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MarkBroussard said:@Microformulation
Mark, I am very curious who were the “experts” cited by the attorneys filing the lawsuit. Do you have links to their websites?
EWG
Disregards CIR based upon “numerous dermatologists..”
This Citation is difficult to run down. The best I could ascertain is that it is a small Spa. Please correct me if I am wrong.
This is a scaremongering book that is interestingly out of print. https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/toxic-beauty-samuel-s-epstein/1100409658
From a Sales Site. There is inherent bias attached. https://www.naturesrepair.org/2021/01/13/dangers-of-sodium-benzoate/
Here is the Citation. It is a Food Co-op’s Banned List. https://www.honestweight.coop/page/the-banned-list-335.html
No Citation on Xanthan Gum. -
I will weigh in since many of us have watched the evolution of the “Naturals” Market since the early 2000s.While these standards are imperfect, they are certainly better than the EWG-driven emotionally defined concept of “natural” which prevailed early on. R&D and the market were muddled due to a lack of standards. When speaking with new clients they would demand “natural” with no idea what it entailed. These standards at least provide an imperfect benchmark the client can use as Guidance.Preservation should never be compromised, but this can be achieved to some level of confidence with the guidelines through proper Formulation and testing.
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jackleon80s said:MarkBroussard said:@jackleon80s
Yes, treat Petrolatum like an oil in an emulsion. The Petrolatum will function as a barrier film former when the emulsion is applied to the skin.
Is there an emulsifier that is more suitable for petrolatum, that is one that will preserve most of its physical properties, and not turn it into a cream? Thanks again
There are many emulsifiers. It is dependent upon the Formulation. No offense, but you are asking questions that can/properly should be researched more in-depth and are properly a “topic” of study.This issue is why many Chemists will say “show the entire Formula” so that they may weigh-in. -
You would really need to post the entire Formulation for anyone to help.
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The Footnoted Citations of “Expert Opinions” are horrible. All three are websites that sell their own products and are biased due to their Marketing. I would expect better research and footnoting from a High School term paper.
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Ask a Veterinarian. Probably not a Chemistry question nor the most effective forum for such questions.
