ketchito
Forum Replies Created
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While cetearyl alcohol, cetyl alcohol, glyceryl stearate and stearic acid are all structuring agents, I believe you’ll get a better lamellar phase using cetyl alcohol (that might be the resonancias why the Emullium you’re using has it as part of their formula.
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It would be useful if you list your ingredients (no percentages needed), to see if something in there could be the reason.
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You could try replacing some water by ethanol. You’d need to test to see how much you’d need.
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For whatvI found out, Sodium deoxycholate’s pKa is around 6.2. That means that a pH of 5, you’ll have its acid form. Organic acids have a lower solubility in water than their salts, so maybe that’s your issue. Make a sample with a pH around 6.5-7.0 to see if that solves the issue.
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It’d hard to give any advice without knowing what’s in your formula. You don’t need to write down percentages, but a list of ingredients would be helpful.
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When talking about fats, you have fatty acids in there, so they add up to the mixture of acids that can be neutralized (some triglycerides can also be hydrolyzed to give fatty acids). NaOH will neutralize the stronger acids first. If you measure your pH and it’s fairly basic, you can assume most of your acids have been neutralized. In the case of LABS, I would aim for a pH coser to 9, to prevent drifting.
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Do you experiencia the same level of turbidity at pH 5.2 and pH 4.0? CAPB could show some issues in the presence of anionics at very low pH, depending on your system. SXS has to be added in higher doses (like 1%, 2%, 3%), again, depending on your system.
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NaOH is mainly used to neutralize LABS in dishwashers. Now, as an added benefit, it can neutralize fats to make them easier to remove.
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I’d put it in the oven (37°C) for an hour or so. Do not excede this time since some components are temperatura sensitive. If you have a bath with ultrasound, even better.
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I usually don’t bring info from suppliers, but you can check this two references from Stepan, for a Mg laureth sulfate (https://www.stepan.com/content/stepan-dot-com/en/products-markets/product/STEPANOLMG.html) and Na laureth sulfate (https://es.stepan.com/content/stepan-dot-com/es/products-markets/product/STEOLCS270.html#:~:text=Es%20tensioactivo%20ani%C3%B3nico%20es%20un,una%20variedad%20de%20aplicaciones%20agr%C3%ADcolas.). Both CMC and Surface tension are lower for the Mg laureth sulfate (don’t mind about the concentration of both, the studies are made at the same solids level). This shows the difference in detergency between both surfactants.
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Hi! The right choice will depend on the type of product and the ingredients you’re using.
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I will ask the obvious first: did you make a sample without any fragrance, and adjusted the pH below 6 without any viscosity loss? I ask this, since many acrylate-based rheology modifiers need to be neutralized in order to work, and the lower the pH, the less neutralized polymer you’ll have in solution (and the lower the viscosity).
Now, 2% of fragrance is a lot! Even 1% is quite high for a body wash. You could of course pre-mix it with a solubilizer prior to adding it to your main batch (polysorbate-20 or PEG-40 HCO), but I’d check first if the low pH for your product is what’s causing the viscosity drop.
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From the picture you showed, it actually looks like foam, but after few days, that foam should have ceased already. Could you put your sample in the oven for few hours, to kill the foam and see if there’s actually a top layer of separated product in your bottle?
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Hi! We need to know what else is in your formula to properly assist you. You don’t need to write percentages, but at least list your inredients.
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I agree @Perry44 . Just reading the limitations Just make you wonder how they got to those conclusions. Waiting for the study in humans ????
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I was actually very disappointed on the study, or at least that they published it on their website being so preliminar (I recall now the UV filters endocrine disruptors study, so at the end, I’m not surprised at all!).
I agree, it doesn’t answer what it’s supposed to answer, and if you only read it on the surface (which media and regular consumers might do -if ever-), you’ll have the impression not only that both cleansers do cause hair loss, but that some botanical extracts are also part of the problem.
By the way, I still have nightmares with some of those cytotoxic studies results ????
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Unfortunately, no. Hydroxypropyl starch phosphate has a polar group (phosphate), which gives the molecule surace active properties. That’s why is not only a stabilizer/rheology modifier, but has some emulsifying properties.
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Sorry for not being so clear. Guar HPTC is a conditioning agent with some thickening propertirs…but mostly conditioning. That’s why it’s commonly present in shampoos. Now, for a shampoo that has Guar HPTC, you could get a bit of extra thickening, if you lower the pH.
Hydroxypropylmethyl cellulose is not a conditioning agent, but a very eficiente thickening agent.
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Few things to correct: thoxylation decreases viscosity of the surfactant in solution, not the opposite.
SLES (3EO) is actually less irritating than SLES (2EO), which is less irritating than SLES (1EO) and so on.
It’s SLES (2EO) the anionic most used im dishwashers (after LABS), while SLES (3EO and higher) is more prefered in baby shampoos.
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I believe it’s divalent ions the ones that help carrageenan molecules to bridge between each other, so better use Calcium chloride.
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Guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride is a different molecule than Hydroxypropylmethyl cellulose, and are used for different purposes (athough the first one gives some viscosity as well, especially in low pH surfactant-based formulas).
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Hi! It means your system can’t hold that much NaCl. You either need to reduce it, or reduce the level of LABSA (you can compensate with SLES). Just to be sure, make a sample neutralized with TEA without NaCl and put it in the fridge; if after 2-3 days it doesn’t get turbid, it’s an issue with the electrolytes. From there, start reducing the amount of LABSA. You’ll notice that the less LABSA you use, the more NaCl you’ll be able to add without turbidity…….or, you could just add an hydrotrope (Sodium xylene sulfonate, for instance).
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Sorry, I think I was following the original thread. If you have a floor cleaner, turbidity due to salting out wouldn’t be much of an issue since the level is very low, so yeah, it wouldn’t matter if you neutralize with either NaOH or TEA. Now, be sure you’ve completely neutralize your system or else, you might experience a pH drop.
And by the way, a hydrotrope is just a molecule that increases the solubility of another one. The most common is Sodium xylene sulfonate.
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<div>@oldman20 To fully neutralize a system that has a decent leve of LABS, you’ll need roughly 1/4 of that amount as NaOH (50% w/w), so it’s not a little amount. Now, as I mentioned, when using TEA as neutralizer, the resultan salt is more soluble than when using NaOH.</div>
I agree with @Hamlaoui. If you still want to use only NaOH, then a hydrotrope is recommended (if your LABS leve is higher than 5%).
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In the case of an anionic surfactant such as SLES, having Mg2+ as counterion increases its detergency, compared to Na+.