ketchito
Forum Replies Created
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I’ve worked with biomaterials in the past and the term biomimetic in cosmetics is, wel….bio-B.S.
The formula you described is simple, and there are actually better performing formulas in the market. Please use a robust preservative system if you want to make something like that.
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For buildup removal, rather than pH, it’s the strenght of your surfactants which preveils. There are even some papers discussing how even for SLES struggles to completel remove buildup caused by Polyquaternium-10.
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I’d add a chelant (like disodium EDTA) and keep the surfactant level to a minimum.
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Are you making an emulsion as guys from Blondme? The delivery system is very important.
Also, use different chelants (as they do), to stabilize your peroxide.
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That’s strange. One thing I could suspect is that your microemulsion also has Cetrimonium chloride, and it might be reacting with your SLES. Else, I don’t know what could be happening. If that’s the case, switch to a microemulsion with a purely non ionic enulsifying system.
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I agree with all the comments. Unfortunately, mineral (inorganic) sunblockers don’t actually reach the same level of protection than if you use organic filters. Keep in mind also that both inorganic filter’s main Mode of action is by absorbing UV rays (same as with organic filters). In my experience, mixing both organic and inorganic filters, along with antioxidants and other radical stabilizers, and a good emollient system to give better spreading/coverage, is a good base for a sunblocker. But as previously mentioned, there’s a lot of knowledge needed to get to a good performing and safe formula.
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What’s your benchmark?
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Hi @abdullah, long time no see! Check if the precipitate that went to the top yesterday, will settle over time. I believe that will happen since it’s a lot of precipitate shown in your pics. Try one sample without salt and put it in the fridge, to see what happens ????
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1% of Tocopheryl acetato might be a bit too much. I wouldn’t go over 0.5%. Keep in mind that you still need something to stabilize your vitamin C. There are few patents on the subject.
Why did you blacklisted polymers? Does that apply also to natural polymers? Many polymers are now biodegradable, just in case.
A 5:1 or 10:1 ratio could actually give a sticy feel. I’d use mixtures of solubilizers, both to use less of each and prevent stickiness. There are also patents on the topic.
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Your system might be salting out. Could you make a batch without NaCl? If that one works fine, you’ll need to add small amounts of NaCl and test if it doesn’t precipitate. You’ll find out then the max amount of NaCl your system can handle.
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You could, but it will make your product thick too soon, so that it’ll be harder to mix some ingredients that would require higher mixing and would aereate your product more than usual.
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I’d actually increase Octocrylene and reduce other UVB crystalline filter. Also, how are you adding your allantoin? That’s a high level (I wouldn’t add it myself in this kind of formula). If you add it in the cool down phase and the product is already thick, that can be a reason for those crystals.
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I’m sure @Perry44 will have a better explanation, but I wanted to chip in if I may ????. I believe Perry was more prone to use other type of polymers than proteins for hair. Actually, what you put in your formulas are not whole proteins (since they are mostly insoluble), but hydrolyzed forms. From there, you’ll have peptides of different sizes. The big ones can still form films, but the smaller ones won’t. Filme from peptides are brittle and inferior than for instance silicones. And small peptides are either too soluble to reach hair or just getting inside hair by chance without altering its mechanical properties. For hydration, the best hydrator of all times is water, hehe…what you need is something to lock in hydration, and that’s when film formers like silicones or mineral oil are good at.
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This article from Science Magazine is very comprehensive: https://www.science.org/content/blog-post/sodium-benzoate-nonsense. Decarboxylation of benzoate is not easy to carry out, especially in normal conditions (catalysts and other conditions are often required).
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Glycerin doesn’t improve viscosity and in high leves, it could actually impair it. Plus, it kills foam. Decyl glucoside is a good surfactant, but can also impair viscosity. Try first without it, and if viscosity is OK, add it in increasing doses in newer prototipes.
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Try removing glycerin, coconut oil, olive oil and decyl glucoside. You’ll notice then the viscosity response from salt addition. Also, increase your SLS a bit, or change/add some SLES.
I’d advise to switch to a more robust preservative system.
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Gillete Shaving Gel has neutralized fatty acids as surfactants. In fact, part of those fatty acids remain no neutralized, to give a more stable and creamy latter.
Your system is quite different, but if you choose to mantain it, I’d decrease the carbopol since it might be delaying your flash soam. Rather, I’d increase your CAPB to get a gel-like phase due to the SLS-CAPB micellar entanglements. Also, remove or drastically reduce your glycerin since it can impair your foam.
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@bluebird At low pH, you have a high concentration of H protons, which will stick to electron-rich centres like oxygen in benzoate. That’s why at low pH (blow its pKa), you have benzoic acid.
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Just as a comment, the reaction of ascorbic acid with sodium benzoate requires very specific conditions, not usually met in cosmetics.
Now, I wouldn’t worry much about mixing Sodium benzoate with cationic surfactants at low pH, since you’ll have benzoic acid instead (the extra hydrogen will “hide” oxygen negative charge you have in benzoate, preventing it to react with cationics). The story would be different at higher pH, but cationic systems in cosmetics are usually use in rather acidic bases.
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There are some excepcions to the rule of not mixing cationic surfctants with anionic surfactants. There are few papers on the matter. But in the case you mention (solid bars), they do it so you can get a hard smooth bar. Now, I don’t see much issue there since when you lather, SCI for example, will rapidly dissolve in water, while Behentrimonium methosulfate will not, so they won’t actually meet, or at least not to cause a dramatic loss in foam or performance. The cause would be different if you add Cetrimonium chloride to a shampoo that has quite some SLES, forming precipitates when they meet.
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For an anhydrous product like yours, you don’t need an emulsifier. In fact, it might be the emulsifier the responsible for the crystallization since it’s mainly waxy.
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To your question, you’ll have a New pH is you mix solutions. While your soap once diluted in water will have a pH, the acid mantle on your skin will be in a somehow solid crystalline state. So at the end, rather than mixing, the surfactants from your soap will strip off the acid mantle on your skin.
Now, that you didn’t experience any issue with the use of soap doesn’t mean some other people won’t either. That’s one of the reasons clinical trials are done with a lot of people.
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My proposal is to either have a not so low pH so that CAPB can properly interact with your anionic surfactant, or to add a rheology modifier that works at low pH.
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Upon dilution, the final pH will eventually be same as water. Even at low dilution (like 1:1 water/shampoo) you’ll already have a pH above 5, and that increases very rapidly. Before adding any water, there’s little difusion of your actives to hair surface due to high viscosity of shampoos. What you need is to have a system that produces high coacervation, and enough detergency to remove most of it later.
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Here’s one reference: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18505536/. You can actually find more online.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Pemulens(R) (BF Goodrich) are hydrophobically-modified copolymers of acrylic acid (Acrylates/C10-C30 alkyl acrylates) that could act both as primary emulsifiers for o/w emulsions and viscosity enhancing agents. The aim of this study was to assess the influence of different processing conditions … Continue reading