[Juliatrudie]

Thank you! Do you have any particular High Internal Phase Emulsifiers from the companies you mentioned that you suggest I check out? Thank you:)

[Juliatrudie]

Hi Matt! Thanks for the reply! I’m a bit worried because you mention surfactant emulsifiers but I’m looking for just emulsifiers as I’m looking to make a w/o cream with high water content as opposed to a cleanser with oil soluble ingredients?! I’m wondering if that doesn’t matter?

I will most definitely be checking them as still so thank you again but I just wanted to confirm:)

[Juliatrudie]

Hello! I would really like the link if you don’t mind:)

[Juliatrudie]

Thank you so much for the advice, I’ll definitely stick to trying to just buy it!

• This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by  Juliatrudie.

[Juliatrudie]

Graillotion said:

First…. It would be helpful if you would say what country you live in.

Secondly… If you have a specific ingredient in mind… list it.  You never know who is reading this…and also had to buy too much of a certain ingredient…and would love to unload half of it.  I have also found several times… where I could not find an ingredient….but someone on the forum showed me a source that Google was not finding for me.

I try and avoid buying ingredients from China….but sometimes that is the only route.  I have been able to tap into my network of professional friends, and when I have to make that Chinese purchase, I can utilize their due diligence and testing, and buy directly from a vetted vendor/manufacturer.  (Looking at you o-Cymen-5-ol.)

Lastly….I might suggest you build a relationship with your re-packers.  I have had numerous successes here in the US, and almost embarrassed to say how many of the ingredients they carry, that I asked them to carry.  (Ever wonder why FSS started carrying dermosoft® decalact deo MB right around the time I was creating a deodorant?)  They are business people as well, and if you can show them there is a market for a product….well, they will consider carrying it.  Offer to buy half of their MOQ on the first batch.  Life is about relationships.

Hehehe…and when all else fails…. The place in Thailand…..probably has it.  

Aloha.

Thank you so much for your input! I am in the USA and your last point was really insightful! 

[Juliatrudie]

chemicalmatt said:

Microcrystalline and ceresine are chemically practically identical, just one is more refined in linear alkanes than the other. Having said that,  there is WAY too much of both in this formula.  This works better as a hair pomade than a cleansing balm. Substitute out most or all of the of the petro-waxes and put into this light ester liquids and soft waxes and you’ll see an improvement.  On another note: why have a film-former such as Softisan 649 in a cleansing balm? Defeats the purpose, no? Also, why the preservative? No water, no need. 

Thank you so so much for the leads! I will absolutely try them and report back!

[Juliatrudie]

Squinny said:

I have never seen a formula like this - where did you get it from? There is a lot of waxes in your formula and according to one data sheet for Ceresin Wax says” Incompatibilities - Ceresin is incompatible with strong oxidizing agents. It is compatible with most animal, vegetable, and mineral waxes, as well as mineral oil and petrolatum.  10% of the other wax (sorry I hadnt heard of so had to google) - seems to be for leave on products as it says Recommended Products w/ Microcrystalline Wax:

L’Oreal Colour Riche Lipstick, Shiseido Bio Performance Super Restoring Cream, Procyte Ti-Silc Sunscreen SPF 60 with Antioxidants
I would revisit the formula or find a product you like commercially and try emulate that or do you want to use the particular ingredients you have in your formula because you have already bought them?
Is it for your skin only or are you wanting to sell? Happy to help but not sure where to begin. I have made a few cleansing balms to test for myself and havent liked any of them - But I have recently been making a Creamy Wash off cleanser and also a cleansing wash-off gel and I have started using both - Just need to find a way to combine the 2 and I’d have a perfect combo - so lots more testing for me also. ( I have Rosacea so need gentle cleanser) - 
Anyone else got a good formula to try?

Thanks for your help!

[Juliatrudie]

ketchito said:

@Juliatrudie With so much mineral oil and waxes, I’m surprised it emulsifies at all. What you are experiencing is the difference in sweat composition between palms and face. Unlike palms, face have glands that produce sebum, so by not only you have the fats from your formula, but also your natural fats that you need to emulsify, and that changes the balance. I’d reduce some fats (mineral oil and waxes) from your formula and replace the high HLB surfactant with a higher one (closer to 15).

Thank you so much!

[Juliatrudie]

Pharma said:

Padmavathi said:

…
Should I be adding something else to stabilise urea? 
…

Yes. With 15% urea you should. Adjust pH to around 6.2 (rather lower than higher), use a buffer if possible, and add triethyl citrate or triacetin.
BTW this only increases shelf life of urea but does not prevent crystal formation. Adding glycerin or another liquid diol/polyol might help with that.

I have a questIon regarding buffers and ph. If I wanted to use a buffer to get say a Urea containing product to a ph of 6.0 should the buffer itself have a ph of 6 or should the buffers ph be lower so as to effectively  reduce the ph of said urea containing product down to say a ph of 6?  

[Juliatrudie]

jemolian said:

Some manufacturers describe it as having a “rich onctuous, velvety and non-greasy feel” that “impacts a rich, full bodied, long-lasting feel on skin”. Then others say it has a light, soft and dry skin feel. 

Personally i don’t feel that it feels “dry”, other than that it is as described above. It depends on what “full bodied” means though. 

If i were to describe it, it’s a light ester that gives a soft, velvety skin feel. Richness depends on the percentage you used it at really. 

Thank you so much for the thorough response! Might I ask your thoughts on if you find it to be “long lasting”? Again thank you for providing insight. 

[Juliatrudie]

chemicalmatt said:

@Juliatrudie The grade of lecithin most commonly used in food and DIY personal care formulation is the 55% “crude” in soybean oil. (Most lecithin derives from soy). The grades with higher phosphatidylcholine (PC) work best in emulsification. I don’t think lecithin is ever a wise choice for emolliency, especially noting the common side effect of “nicotine flush” described by @suswang8 and @DrJekyll. Use it at 1.00% active or less to emulsify high triglyceride oil loads, but remember you MUST employ a co-emulsifier or you’ll not only observe the instability you saw but lecithin-built emulsions will exhibit the “gloop factor” if used alone. Unless “gloop” is what you are shooting for of course, then disregard. Also, remember PC is anionic so do not tempt fate and use a cationic material with it.

Thank you so so much @chemicalmatt! I will definitely be using a co emulsifier!

[Juliatrudie]

suswang8 said:

Good question, so bumping. 

Also, julia, what % of liquid lecithin were you planning on using?  It is regarded as being a very potent emulsifier, although I always had issues with stability after several days.     

Hello! I plan on using just 3%. I wonder what was causing it to become unstable, might I ask how much lecithin you used? 

[Juliatrudie]

ketchito said:

@Juliatrudie The best strategy is to use a mixture of solvents, rather than just one alone, not only to avoid physical issues but to reduce any allergic reaction.

Thank you for responding! I will definitely try that idea out!

[Juliatrudie]

chemicalmatt said:

First, do not use bicarbonate to adjust pH in the acid range because you will elute CO2 and end up with a fizzy product. That might be cool but it won’t help your buffering problem. Read up on buffers and the common ion effect. Phosphate, citrate, maleate, choose your method. BTW, sodium hydroxide + citric acid makes sodium citrate. Funny how folks admire sodium citrate but get annoyed with NaOH. Go figure.

Thank you! I’ve been doing my molarity and Henderson Hasselbalch equation homework in regards to buffer solutions haha. Hopefully I can translate from paper to practice! Thank you once again for responding to my post.