Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating Formula Help: My Cleansing Balms Rinse Off Is Awful!

  • Formula Help: My Cleansing Balms Rinse Off Is Awful!

    Posted by Juliatrudie on July 11, 2022 at 10:57 am

    Hello, 

    I have been tinkering with a cleansing balm formula but when I go to rinse it off, the emulsification is awful. It forms a thick cream like film on my face that doesn’t come off until I vigorously scrub with a second cleanser. No milky emulsifying goodness happening on the face at all. 

    Mineral Oil- 37%

    Cetyl Ethylhexanoate- 25%

    Polyglyceryl-10 Dioleate- 15% (HLB 11) 

    Polyglyceryl-2 Sesquicaprylate- 5% (HLB 8)

    Microcrystalline Wax-10%

    Cersine Wax -6%

    Softisan 649- 1%

    Vitamin E- 0.5%

    Liquid Germall Plus- 0.5%

    Things I’ve tried.

    1. I reduced the amount of Polyglyceryl-2 Sesquicaprylate from 15% to 5%. I did this because it was mentioned that emulsifiers with low HLB values will create oil in water emulsions which resist wash off. The only reason I’m using it in this formula is that the mixture of these two emulsifiers were supposedly designed to support each other when used for oil based cleansers plus my supplier has amazing prices for them so I’d really like to make it work.
    2. Made sure that the Polyglyceryl-10 Dioleate was thoroughly heated, melted and stirred properly into the batches. Polyglyceryl-10 Dioleate is a very soft paste so after my first attempt I noticed that it sort of settled at the bottom. I make sure it’s heated and melted fully then continuously stir  until I’m satisfied then I pour into my container and let cook at room temp. 

    I’d also like to state that my suppliers technical sheet recommends using polyglyceryl-10 Dioleate and Polyglyceryl-2 Sesquicaprylate in 8:2 or 7:3 ratio rates but all the sample formulas provided were for cleansing oils and not balms so maybe that plays a role? It’s weird because it emulsifies perfectly on the back of my hand but awfully on the face. Maybe I will bring the percentage of the P-Sesquicaprylate down more and see.  I would LOVE to hear some suggestions if anyone has any :)

    Thank you 

    Juliatrudie replied 1 year, 7 months ago 4 Members · 6 Replies
  • 6 Replies
  • ketchito

    Member
    July 11, 2022 at 11:36 am

    @Juliatrudie With so much mineral oil and waxes, I’m surprised it emulsifies at all. What you are experiencing is the difference in sweat composition between palms and face. Unlike palms, face have glands that produce sebum, so by not only you have the fats from your formula, but also your natural fats that you need to emulsify, and that changes the balance. I’d reduce some fats (mineral oil and waxes) from your formula and replace the high HLB surfactant with a higher one (closer to 15).

  • squinny

    Member
    July 12, 2022 at 4:14 am

    I have never seen a formula like this - where did you get it from? There is a lot of waxes in your formula and according to one data sheet for Ceresin Wax says” Incompatibilities - Ceresin is incompatible with strong oxidizing agents. It is compatible with most animal, vegetable, and mineral waxes, as well as mineral oil and petrolatum.  10% of the other wax (sorry I hadnt heard of so had to google) - seems to be for leave on products as it says Recommended Products w/ Microcrystalline Wax:

    L’Oreal Colour Riche LipstickShiseido Bio Performance Super Restoring CreamProcyte Ti-Silc Sunscreen SPF 60 with Antioxidants
    I would revisit the formula or find a product you like commercially and try emulate that or do you want to use the particular ingredients you have in your formula because you have already bought them?
    Is it for your skin only or are you wanting to sell? Happy to help but not sure where to begin. I have made a few cleansing balms to test for myself and havent liked any of them - But I have recently been making a Creamy Wash off cleanser and also a cleansing wash-off gel and I have started using both - Just need to find a way to combine the 2 and I’d have a perfect combo - so lots more testing for me also. ( I have Rosacea so need gentle cleanser) - 
    Anyone else got a good formula to try?

  • chemicalmatt

    Member
    July 15, 2022 at 8:58 pm

    Microcrystalline and ceresine are chemically practically identical, just one is more refined in linear alkanes than the other. Having said that,  there is WAY too much of both in this formula.  This works better as a hair pomade than a cleansing balm. Substitute out most or all of the of the petro-waxes and put into this light ester liquids and soft waxes and you’ll see an improvement.  On another note: why have a film-former such as Softisan 649 in a cleansing balm? Defeats the purpose, no? Also, why the preservative? No water, no need. 

  • Juliatrudie

    Member
    July 17, 2022 at 2:50 am

    ketchito said:

    @Juliatrudie With so much mineral oil and waxes, I’m surprised it emulsifies at all. What you are experiencing is the difference in sweat composition between palms and face. Unlike palms, face have glands that produce sebum, so by not only you have the fats from your formula, but also your natural fats that you need to emulsify, and that changes the balance. I’d reduce some fats (mineral oil and waxes) from your formula and replace the high HLB surfactant with a higher one (closer to 15).

    Thank you so much!

  • Juliatrudie

    Member
    July 17, 2022 at 2:51 am

    Squinny said:

    I have never seen a formula like this - where did you get it from? There is a lot of waxes in your formula and according to one data sheet for Ceresin Wax says” Incompatibilities - Ceresin is incompatible with strong oxidizing agents. It is compatible with most animal, vegetable, and mineral waxes, as well as mineral oil and petrolatum.  10% of the other wax (sorry I hadnt heard of so had to google) - seems to be for leave on products as it says Recommended Products w/ Microcrystalline Wax:

    L’Oreal Colour Riche LipstickShiseido Bio Performance Super Restoring CreamProcyte Ti-Silc Sunscreen SPF 60 with Antioxidants
    I would revisit the formula or find a product you like commercially and try emulate that or do you want to use the particular ingredients you have in your formula because you have already bought them?
    Is it for your skin only or are you wanting to sell? Happy to help but not sure where to begin. I have made a few cleansing balms to test for myself and havent liked any of them - But I have recently been making a Creamy Wash off cleanser and also a cleansing wash-off gel and I have started using both - Just need to find a way to combine the 2 and I’d have a perfect combo - so lots more testing for me also. ( I have Rosacea so need gentle cleanser) - 
    Anyone else got a good formula to try?

    Thanks for your help!

  • Juliatrudie

    Member
    July 17, 2022 at 2:52 am

    Microcrystalline and ceresine are chemically practically identical, just one is more refined in linear alkanes than the other. Having said that,  there is WAY too much of both in this formula.  This works better as a hair pomade than a cleansing balm. Substitute out most or all of the of the petro-waxes and put into this light ester liquids and soft waxes and you’ll see an improvement.  On another note: why have a film-former such as Softisan 649 in a cleansing balm? Defeats the purpose, no? Also, why the preservative? No water, no need. 

    Thank you so so much for the leads! I will absolutely try them and report back!

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