johnb
Forum Replies Created
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There seems to be an excess of CDEA relative to the amount of active surfactant.
Reduce/omit the amide and perhaps include SLES as foam booster/thickener.
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Thinking back to my days in soap manufacturing, the thing that was avoided in shaving creams was triethanolamine. It added nothing positive to the product and there was a big negative in that it almost invariably discoloured to an unpleasant brown on storage. This was avoidable by using analytical grade TEA but that was not economical on a commercial scale.
I doubt that studying abstruse scientific treatise dealing with simple two or three component mixtures will help you. A shaving cream has numerous ingredients acting with and against each other which makes a simple answer to your question impossible.
If you have a shaving cream which is successful, why do you feel it necessary to change it? Remember the adage “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.”
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Is there no surfactant in your product?
I find it difficult to imagine an acceptable toothpaste with only the ingredients you have declared.
BTW the “silica” mentioned by Bobzchemist is amorphous silica produced by precipitation or flame hydrolysis. It is not powdered crystalline silica (sand or mineral)
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Sorry, Mark, but I must intercept again.
In the first INCI list given, propylparaben is stated as a preservative. In the second, phenoxyethanol.
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I feel it should be clarified that although Naticide may have the INCI designation “Parfum”, it does not follow that “Parfum” is Naticide (or p-anisic acid or sodium p-anisate).
It is also noteworthy that Naticide is a mixture of several materials, not just p-anisic acid.
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Somewhat doubtful this is posssible using natural ingredients.
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If you are formulating your own perfumes or even just using perfume materials in your creations and you are marketing the products (in however small quantities) you should be aware of, and comply with, the IFRA Code of Practice and standards.
http://www.ifraorg.org/en-us/standards -
What about beeswax or carnauba wax, candelilla wax and so on - there are several others.
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Do not forget there are two distinctly different Trevor Sorbie formulations with ostensibly the same name.
Be aware that PEG-40 is not at all the same as PEG-40 HCO as referred by Bill Toge. PEG-40 HCO is PEG -40 hydrogenated castor oil - a high HLB ether type surfactant. PEG-40 is polyethylene glycol.
Regarding water and preservatives, one of the formulae contains added water, the other doesn’t. Even so, there can be minor amounts of water absorbed into the kaolin (unless it has been specifically dried) but (probably more important and likely) is that water could find its way into the container after opening and during use. Your precautionary attitude is laudable. Also appreciate that kaolin has been sitting in the Earth for gazillions of years - who knows what it has picked up in that time. Therefore buy sterilised kaolin (or sterilise it yourself) before use.
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I suggest, then that you forget about including a sunscreen/UV absorber and use a stable EDTA containing formula.
At the level you are using PBSA, it will have little use in acting as a sunscreen in the powerful sunlight experienced in India.
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You may want to consider niacinamide or vanillin or mixtures of these (as mentioned in my previous replies here). Niacinamide is a well known skin care ingredient.
Thank you, it sounds interesting! I will try it with propanediol and
Dimethyl isosorbide. Being in the label after the caffeine means that
have to be < 5%.It could be that propanediol is present at 4.9999%. Don’t forget glycerin is there as well. Maltodextrin may also have a solvent effect on caffeine. MD might be there at 4.9998% and glycerin at 4.9997%. I’m not suggesting that this is the real situation, just as an illustration as to how we can be lisled by a LOI. DMI is way down the list so it would be reasonable to forget that as an important solvent in this product.
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It would be better to begin a new discussion for your request.
This thread is rather old and the title doesn’t fit very well with what you are asking.
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I’m quite certain the colour isn’t due to Fungi or Mould.
Do you check this?
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I found the information I offered via Google using the keywords mandelic acid 50%. It took me less than one minute.
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do you need a solubilize agent when you need to add high fragrance levels?
Depends on the product.
High surfactant content or high solvent level avoids the use of solubilizers.
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Most dusting powders have a talc base. There is a legal problem going through the US courts at the moment where there is a class action lawsuit against J&J in respect of their Baby Powder causing cancers in adult users. It should be noted that there is no proof so far that this is true and, even if it is, these reactions are extremely rare.
Regarding cornstarch as dusting powder, it has a completely different feel to talc, even using the modified versions which are supposed to be talc imitators (e.g Dry-Flo starch). Tapioca starch or a modified tapioca starch (Dry-Flo TS) has a better skin feel in my opinion. You could, of course, use a blend of talc and starches to give the best (or worst) of both worlds.
The oxidation problem is not directly due to the powder itself but to the very large surface area that the perfume is subjected to when distributed on a powder.
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Commercial high strength mandelic acid peels tend to use a mixture of water, propanediol, ethanol and glycerin as solvent. Proportions of each are not disclosed.
Note that propanediol means 1,3-propanediol (Zemea) which is not the same as propylene glycol (1,2-propanediol) and has somewhat different solvent properties. You may find that longer chain polyols are even better solvents.
With using multiple solvents, I think the determination of the optimum blend is a matter of trial and error rather than calculation.
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What quality of water fo you use? It should be at least de-ionised and preferably distilled. Impure water can contain metal ions which may react with many things to form colours of various hues. Water should also be sterile in order not to contaminate the final product with micro-organisms. Fungi and moulds can produce a range of colours.
It may be better as well to use a proper preservative in your cleanser rather than relying on Leucidal as a sole preservative.
Do you check the pH of your products? Are the discoloured samples a different pH compared with the non-discoloured?
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Note: there are at least two different formulations in the Trevor Sorbie “Clay” range. One as quoted above and another declared as:
Petrolatum, Kaolin, Cera Alba (Beeswax), Parfum (Fragrance), Tapioca
Starch, Isopropyl Myristate, Phenoxyethanol, Aqua (Water), Linalool,
Tocopheryl Acetate, Limonene, Propylene Glycol, Butylphenyl
Methylpropional, Polymethylsilsesquioxane, Alpha-isomethyl Ionone,
Kigelia Africana Fruit Extract, Citral, Cinnamomum Zeylanicum Bark
Extract, Ginkgo Biloba Leaf Extract, Salvia Sclarea (Clary) Extract.It is this last one to which MarkBroussard refers, I believe.
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Linalool will not give a citrus odour. It is a major component of lavender and of coriander (hence the alternative name coriandrol). Limonene does give the characteristic odour of lemons and is the basis of many citrus oils however, is very readily oxidises and acquires a paint-brush cleaner odour (which is one of its major industrial uses as a solvent). Limonene is very volatile and its longevity in use in a fragrance product is short lived. It is also a skin irritant in more than minute doses and the oxidation products are contact allergens. I would not recommend any perfume containing any more than minute amounts of limonene to be used for skin contact.
There are very many perfume ingredients that are unavailable to the small formulator so you cannot hope or expect to be able to imitate the fragrances of commercial products - which are most definitely NOT produced merely from or by essential oils or extracts/fractions thereof.
There are a number to suppliers to the home or small formulator who sell perfume compounds (concentrates) in small quantities. These may contain ingredients that are otherwise unavailable to small formualtors as these companies buy bulk from commercial perfume houses and repackage into small containers. Our friend Google can help search these people out.
Regarding the absorption of fragrance by kaolin. This can be reduced depending on what stage of the proccessing that the fragrance is added. Mixing the fragrance oil with the kaolin at or near the start of the mixing will, as you may appreciate, result in maximum absorption. Adding as a final ingredient (this is the norm with all perfume addition) will give maximum odour impact.
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I omitted to mention:
The perfume level in this type of product is usually between 0.5 - 1.0%.
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Dusting powder = talcum powder. Is this what you intend?
These powders are easily prepared by absorbing a perfume concentrate into a suitable inert medium such as magnesium carbonate or starch or fumed silica. This is done by simple mixing of about one part fragrance concentrate to 3 or 4 parts absorbing powder. This mix is then triturated with the main bulk of talc.
Trituration is a simple process that ensures even distribution of the fragrance into all of the talc. Take one portion of your perfumed powder concntrate and mix thoroughly with an equal amount of talc. Then this mix and mix with two parts of talc (you then have equivalent of four parts). Take these four parts and mix with an equal amount of talc. You then have eight parts. Take these eight parts of mixture and thoroughly mix with eight parts of talc. You then have sixteen parts and repeat until it is all mixed together. Sift the final mix to ensure there are no lumps or aggregates.
This is much easier to carry out than it appears to be on paper.
DO NOT just dump the perfume oil into talc and stir - it will not mix properly.
Be careful with the selection of perfume. The powder form makes the perfume prone to oxidation which results in changes to the odour - these can be very unpleasant. Storage test thoroughly before making a final decision on suitability.
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Most formulations I’ve come across have the major component (water, alcohol, oil, soap base or whatever) listed as ” - - to - - - 100″ or ” - - - ad - - - 100″ or ” - - - to make - - - 100″ or similar such phraseology. Doing this avoids niggly arguments about formulation listings not adding up to 100%.
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It may improve things if you neutralise/slightly acidify the stearamidopropyl dimethylamine. I suggest about 1% lactic acid.