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TEA Stearate and Glycerin
I’m trying to work out a revised formula for my Shaving Cream and was wondering the affect that TEA Stearate has on my or any other formula. I know that TEA is not a strong alkaline and I think what I am asking about is the activity of TEA Stearate. In layman’s terms I am wondering how little TEA Stearate will make a noticeable difference in the thickness or thinness of my product.
Water,
Stearic Acid, Myristic Acid, Potassium Hydroxide, Glycerin, Cocos
Nucifera (Coconut) Oil, Triethanolamine, Sodium Hydroxide, Caprylyl Glycol, Phenoxyethanol, Hexylene Glycol, Tetrasodium EDTAI did try and look up some info and found this:
I also have noted that many of the shaving creams that are out there seem to have a lower percentage of the Glycerin than the Coconut Oil or Coconut Fatty Acids (I know that Coconut Fatty Acids have no glycerin in them) that are used and I want to make sure that I keep things in their proper proportions!
If one has a better understanding of the ingredients of a formula then one can make a better educated adjustment in that formula.
Thanks in advance for any help you can provide!
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17 Replies
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Thinking back to my days in soap manufacturing, the thing that was avoided in shaving creams was triethanolamine. It added nothing positive to the product and there was a big negative in that it almost invariably discoloured to an unpleasant brown on storage. This was avoidable by using analytical grade TEA but that was not economical on a commercial scale.
I doubt that studying abstruse scientific treatise dealing with simple two or three component mixtures will help you. A shaving cream has numerous ingredients acting with and against each other which makes a simple answer to your question impossible.
If you have a shaving cream which is successful, why do you feel it necessary to change it? Remember the adage “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.”
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johnb,
Thanks so much for your reply! I am surprised to hear of this reaction to using TEA in shaving creams. My understanding was that it add “creaminess” to the lather and I haven’t had any problem with it like you described but fragrances do have that effect on product color and sometimes a quite strong effect!
As far as my product is concerned, I am seeking to give it a bit more “slip and glide” and to leave behind a nice “skin feel”. This is why I was considering raising the level of glycerin. I am aware that too much glycerin can effect lather and many textbooks I’ve read suggested not to go any higher than 5%! Many of the formulas I have collected are at 5% but some recent ones, including one that was posted here:
“saleemSeptember 15, 2012 at 1:19 am
if you want to become a practical formulator of top
industries including cosmetic ,soap industry and many more formulation then
visit athttp://www.chemicalformulaservices.com
Here is a simple formulation of shaving cream with its simple procedure.
(A)
Stearic acid = 30.00%
Coconut oil = 10.00%
Palm Oil = 5.00%
(
Caustic potash = 7.00%
Soda caustic = 1.50%
Glycerin = 10.00%
water = 36.50%
Process.
Part (A) and Part (
separately Heated in the vessels at 75 centigrade tempAfter this mix both parts till it become homogeneously.
Add the perfume in the end at 35 centigrade.
It is a simple formulation which raw material easily available in the market.”
This formula contains glycerin at 10% and I was wondering what your experience might have suggested to you about the usage percentage in this kind of formula?
I recently found some formulas with Tea Strearate at 3% for a shaving cream which surprised me which was why I was wondering about usage rates that high! Anything you may wish to add of share would be greatly appreciated! Thanks again for your input!
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if you want to give your product more lubricity and a smoother skin feel, in my view you’d be better off including oleic acid, or an oil which is high in oleic acid
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One of the shaving creams I formulated many years ago - which enjoyed a huge market share in Europe contained a small amount of Polyox (I don’t remember the grade) to give exceptional lubricity and slip for the razor and a superior skin feel after use.
http://www.dow.com/dowwolff/en/industrial_solutions/product/polyox.htm
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Interestingly enough, I found this discussion while looking up
information on Polyox that was listed by Bill_Toge and the current
discussion was recommended by johnb! I have been looking for suppliers
that carry it but as a small company I probably can’t meet their
minimums… there are other options listed here though! I’m bringing
this other post back because of the information it provides…https://chemistscorner.com/cosmeticsciencetalk/discussion/624/shaving-cream-formulating-tips
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You could try this grade available in small amounts:
It’s UK based. I don’t know if they send overseas.
There are some other UK suppliers.
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johnb - I’ll check it out! I am in New Jersey (and NYC) so I am looking for local chemical companies which is made easier because so many of the chemical companies are located in these two states! Thank you!
Bill_Toge - Oleic Acid might be a good option and it certainly would give more label wow to the more natural crowd! I am assuming that I would process the saponification of my formula and I would add the Oleic Acid the next day when I homogenize the batch and add fragrance. I am also thinking it might be in a fairly low percentage say from 1-2%?
I’ll keep looking around for more info on both ingredients! Thanks for your help!
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I’m bringing this back up as I can going over my shaving cream formula again to see where I might make some subtle changes! Above I said:
“As far as my product is concerned, I am seeking to give it a bit more
“slip and glide” and to leave behind a nice “skin feel”. This is why I
was considering raising the level of glycerin. I am aware that too much
glycerin can effect lather and many textbooks I’ve read suggested not
to go any higher than 5%!”Well, I just read “Poucher’s Perfumes, Cosmetics and Soaps” where he suggested:
“A humectant glycerol, sorbitol an propylene glycol is usually included at 10-15% to minimize drying out of the cream and to make the cream slightly softer.”
I’ve been keeping my formula around 5-6% but have found it too stiff at times even though it softens up in time and some customers have complained about the “slip, glide and cushion” but others think it is fine.
I am concerned about dropping the H2O level which is where I will be taking it from when I add more to the glycerin. Any thought, observations or suggestions will be greatly appreciated! Thank you!
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There are a number of alternative glycols around now which weren’t available to Poucher. These may provide the different properties you seek.
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True, but I would like to stay with Glycerin and am concerned about the percentage. I decided to do a test production batch of 100 oz. yesterday and I went up to 10%! I must say it was easier to stir during the brief 5+ minute saponification process but I’ll know more when I homogenize it.
There is always water loss in my process but since it is so short it usually isn’t higher than 1-2% so I can always add more glycerin to replace the water in two previous batches from the day before.
It is just frustrating to have some sources who say “don’t go any higher than 5%” and others that suggest “10-15%”! Poucher did say it would make it “softer” and that is what I need!
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Back in the dim recesses of my mind, I seem to recall Polymer JR being promoted for shaving cream.
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I also have to point out that it’s frequently a bad idea to give too much credence to published theories of how much of an ingredient to use. (Unless it’s safety levels - pay close attention to those)
One source says 5% and the other says 15%? That shouldn’t be confusing, it should be a good excuse for experimenting! Try your formula at 5, 10, 15, even 20% and see what happens.
Way too many chemists and formulators recently seem to be hung-up by “the expert says x” or “the literature says y”, so this is what I must slavishly adhere to. I call Bogus. Try it yourself at a range of values and see what happens! This is the ONLY way you move from being a recipe-follower to being an actual chemist
(Please insert the appropriate safety precautions here. Know your materials, actually read the MSDS, kids don’t try this at home, keep away from open flame, etc.) -
Bob, That polymer looks interesting! I see formulas for bath and shampoo products that look interesting there!
You are certainly right about Trychemistry! I need to think more that way, learn to make only one change at a time
and experiment with several batches to see which is best before going on
to the next aspect! The results of yesterdays batch are softer and more pearlescent than the others so that’s a step in the right direction! I’ll know more when it is scented and homogenized!I tend to “overthink” in all of my projects (and in life) so I decided to ask a question here before I went down another dead end. I figure that if my hypothesis is wrong I won’t waste the time going there and hopefully someone else may benefit by the posts left behind here in the future. I am fortunate to have discovered the late Maurice Hevey who volunteered on a soapmaking message board as well as his Yahoo page Cosmetic Lab that I joined where I learned to work with formulas (not recipes!) based on 100% and begin to think as a chemist. In my mind, it is a much better approach for soapmakers and those who dabble in cosmetic formulation.
Your response is true as far as using the cosmetic chemist approach but sometimes fear or lack of confidence stops us from going down a certain road without some reassurance from some of the experts here on Perry’s board. I am grateful for that and appreciate your help, all of you!
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In going over my notes again this evening, I saw this answer to my above Tea Stearate question, from the late Maurice Hevey. I’ll quote my own notes from 2004:
“I posted about TEA on the Cosmetics board that I
joined a few days ago to try to find out the range in which TEA Stearate is used
in a product. Maurice’s answer was “as
little as is needed” which didn’t exactly give me the answer I was hoping for.“What I didn’t realize at the time was that his answer was exactly what I needed to hear but unfortunately I didn’t understand what he was saying so I couldn’t understand the impact on my formula. In this instance, if I had followed what he said and used only the 1% that I had seen in a few formulas and I had been using, I wouldn’t have made the mistake of upping the percentage a few times over the years and I would have been able to make it one of things in the formula who’s percentage doesn’t change! Sometimes we listen but we don’t always hear!
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I reposted this formula above:
“saleemSeptember 15, 2012 at 1:19 am
if you want to become a practical formulator of top industries including cosmetic ,soap industry and many more formulation then visit at
http://www.chemicalformulaservices.com
Here is a simple formulation of shaving cream with its simple procedure.
(A)
Stearic acid = 30.00%
Coconut oil = 10.00%
Palm Oil = 5.00%
(
Caustic potash = 7.00%
Soda caustic = 1.50%
Glycerin = 10.00%
water = 36.50%Process.
Part (A) and Part (
separately Heated in the vessels at 75 centigrade temp
After this mix both parts till it become homogeneously.
Add the perfume in the end at 35 centigrade.
It is a simple formulation which raw material easily available in the market.”It turns out that it is a formula from Harry’s Cosmetology!
Here is a snippet view of the post without completing the final lines:
I As you can see the last lines are cut off where it says “well until
saponification is complete. The remainder of the melted stearic acid
is” and the rest is missing. Does anyone have either Harry’s
Cosmeticology either 6th or 7th version? If so would you be so kind as
to look this up and post it here? I am SO curious about this formula
and I would greatly appreciate the help! Thanks! -
Sorry, I just checked but I only have the 8th edition.
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Thanks, Belassi, I appreciate your kindness.
This
formula is of interest because I just checked the SAP values and found
that not only is Harry’s using a NaOH/KOH ratio of 5/1 (seems to be
standard) but has a superfat of exactly 10% which is higher than I
expected and although I could make assumptions of what it might read
below where the “snippet” view ends I don’t want to assume anything!
The Harry’s Cosmeticology Version 8, that someone kindly shared with me,
contains some useful information which I had overlooked before!“These
types of systems can pose problems during scale-up from laboratory to
manufacture. Attention to details such as mixing times, rates of addition,
cooling rates, and time of mixing after neutralization are crucial. Stability and product texture can be
adversely affected.” from Harry’s Cosmeticology Version 8″This explains why it is difficult to make changes in the formula and I was actually wise in making larger sample batches! The Water/oil(soap) ratio is also quite important here and you really can’t add ingredients to the oil(soap) phase and take it away from the water phase you actually have to ADD some to the water phase or shrink the rest of the original part of the oil(soap) phase to keep the same water/soap ratio the same! It’s a balancing act!
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