[Graillotion]

Add as little stearic acid as you can get by with.  Add some dimethicone to reduce soaping.

Review the basics….

What is your:

emollient
occlusive
humectant (as mentioned…glycerin…or others)
emulsifier/s….and how will it make my product feel?

Build off of that.  Once you have those fundamentals in place, substitute in better pieces until you have the feel you want.

Note: I just finished a cream that started out pretty elaborate right out of the gate…and took 41 iterations to get it where I was happy.

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mikethair said:

My business partner and I have allergies to synthetic fragrances, so in our skin & hair care product business we stick with essential oils only. And we only buy from trusted sources… one I have used for around 30 years, and the newest, 10 years. All batches supplied with CoAs. 

Are you willing to share your trusted sources?  Do they sell small pack?

Of all the small pack resellers I have tried, I like New Directions the best.  But always open to a good supplier!  Can never have enough of those.  (Also shipping from Canada to Hawaii….adds up!)

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domicanica said:

Hmm thanks @Perry your last point was especially helpful and sparked an idea in my head. I was mostly worried about buyer perception but I will go ahead and explore synthetic fragrances as an option. Maybe if I’m transparent enough and make sure to write enough educational material on my website and social media channels people won’t mind.

Hehehe….educating social media?  Many of them operate on ignorance and fear mongering, and don’t dare contradict the blogger they worship. ::wink:
(Don’t leave it open for debate…or that is what you’ll spend your time doing.)  Whatever route you take, do it with confidence.  You can not be all things to all people.

I also use some synthetic fragrances…as long as you can list them as paraben-free and phthalate-free, you will draw in all but the wacko’s.

If there is one thing I have discovered in developing, and especially when I create trials (that I do myself) with people….the absolute first thing they do…even before they allow it to touch their skin….SNIFF SNIFF…  Win the sniff test…you have all but won the battle.

I even do crazy things like give them 3 of the same thing…only scent is different….and they will rave about how superior all aspects of the cream they like the scent of, and how it is superior to the other two products….which only the fragrance is different.

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ngarayeva001 said:

Re formula, I am with @Pattsi and @Graillotion, the emulsification system isn’t adequate. Get a proper emulsifier. I always suggest Arlacel 165 (ala lotionpro 165, aka Glyceryl Steatate+ PEG-100 stearate) 

I use the 165 series on two of my products.  Quite simply the easiest to use, and most stable….sometimes we say ‘bullet proof’ as an emulsifier.  And in both cases I use a strong co-emulsifiers to support it.  In all but one case I back up my primary emulsifier with GSC (Glyceryl stearate citrate).  Please don’t confuse that with Glyceryl stearate!  Of course I also support the overall emulsion with fatty alcohols (different ones for different applications).

Tip: You emulsifier of choice…will have a dramatic effect on the feel of your product.  If you choose an emulsifier that is not elegant to start with, it becomes much more difficult to formulate ‘elegance’ back into it.

[Graillotion]

domicanica said:

Hmmm @Graillotion are all those 3% oils on the NDA website basically plant extracts/essential oils just diluted in carrier oils?

No…they are not essential oils (albeit, I guess it depends on your definition of ‘essential oil’).  You can search the process, they actually distill from the flowers…hence so expensive.

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domicanica said:

Hmmm @Graillotion are all those 3% oils on the NDA website basically plant extracts/essential oils just diluted in carrier oils? For instance from my research lotus essential oil doesn’t seem to be a thing but it seems like they’ve maybe extracted an aromatic part of the lotus flower and added it to an oil…seems like a great way to keep the ingredient list natural while still incorporating an attractive scent… Thank you for that, I’m going to look into those.

Yes….the link I sent…was 3% absolute mixed with 97% Jojoba.  If you have the money…they offer the same thing…in 100% absolutes.

Rose Absolute - Bulgaria - Exotic Scent of Rose - Wholesale Prices (newdirectionsaromatics.com)

Then you can mix them however you deem fit.

[Graillotion]

I am in a similar situation.

I kept dreaming I could create a good scent with essential oils….to this day…I have not been able to create a scent I would pay money for.

With artificial scents…there can literally be 100’s of ingredients in a single fragrance….and you have little idea what is in there.  Other than getting a few tags of:  _______ FREE…that is all you know.

In my latest project, I finally found a natural scent that I, and so far, all my testers have appreciated:

Rose Bulgarian 3% Dilution at Wholesale prices (newdirectionsaromatics.com)

First of all….let me say…50% of testers will be repulsed by artificial rose… Those same testers…will usually like real rose.  This is a pricey option, and this product will take every bit of .5% to be effective.  I use phenethyl alcohol as part of my preservative system, and this really helps to enhance this scent.

[Graillotion]

suswang8 said:

@ngarayeva001
@Pattsi
@Graillotion

For what it’s worth, the manufacturer claims that its lecithin (as sole emulsifier) can handle up to 10x its weight in oil (e.g., 0.8% should be enough for 8% oil).  https://www.cargill.com/personal-care/applications/skin-care-face

Regardless, I do have sorbitan stearate on hand.  How does glyceryl stearate compare?  I need something that is really non-comedogenic.  

Thank you.

First of all…if you believe all the propaganda that the mfg’s put out….there is probably no hope.  Secondly…when you calculate…you base the calculation on everything in the oil phase…not just the oil.  
Lecithin might make a good salad dressing, but will it provide an elegant product?  Even if it could hold it together, imagine the feel.
There are plenty of plant based emulsifiers that have a 0 rating for comedogenic, and actually work.

Just a hint….essentially everyone in the industry uses co-emulsifiers with emulsifiers that are monumentally better than lecithin…. go figure.  When a mfg states their emulsifier is ‘stand alone’….move on!  (Start reading books again.)

[Graillotion]

Pattsi said:

Lecithin alone is not quite stable in long term, and you sure 0.8 is enough?

Bingo!

[Graillotion]

Lauryl Laurate

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suswang8 said:

Hi, all.
I have created a couple of oil-in-water products recently that looked perfectly fine on Day 1 and Day 2, and then starting about a week later (stored at around 75 degrees Fahrenheit) began to show minor signs of separation/unevenness.  

1. What is typically the first place you look when addressing this kind of issue?  Is it insufficient (%-wise) emulsifier?  
2. Also, does ethanol (added during cool down) lessen stability?

Thank you.

We can not begin to ‘guess’ what your issues are.  If you are looking for answers we need to know the details.  Formula with percentages, process etc.

The issues could be down many different avenues, from not using a primary emulsifier, to not using enough emulsifier, to having antagonist in the formula, so not following emulsifiers specific directions….(temp etc).  

If you are looking for answers, post your formula, pH, and technique/process.  We have actually seen people try and make emulsions with a whisk.  

[Graillotion]

What was your inclusion rate, and pH?

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Perry said:

@Graillotion - I will look into that. I thought it opened up a new window but I guess sometimes it doesn’t.

At least with the browsers I use… 100% of the time, it opens in the currant page, so the forum is gone, whenever I click on a posted link.

I’m one of those nut jobs that reads all the links. 🙂

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Speaking of links and the site, @Perry, just throwing this out there….but on the forum whenever you click on a link…it takes you off the site.  Is there anyway you can make them open in a new window?  Just a thought.

[Graillotion]

TheSocksTooBig said:

Also like to mention. Some distributor say their shea butter is ultra refined but it’s not. lotioncrafter’s refined shea butter was much better than some ultra refined version. It was lighter, more creamy, whiter, and no odour 

There is no definition for refined and ultra refined.  Just perception.  

[Graillotion]

The small companies are less likely to have a chemist on staff.  As I have learned in my journey, there are so many pitfalls on the way to success, one either needs access to a chemist, or a chemist on staff.

We left out the mid-size brands….I have seen more sketchy labels at that level…than anywhere else. (non viable preservative systems….yet their products seem to last and last???)

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aedina said:

Thank you for your insight.

 I am from EU and l have just started formulating. l bought so so many cold-pressed organic butters, oils and extracts that l am really embarrassed about it…But it is good to learn from mistakes and this website does help a lot.

 l originally wanted to combine synthetic ingredients with the best natural ingredients l could find. 

Hey… the fact that you kept trying after discovering less that ideal products says a lot.  I went through the exact same thing, and it is all about moving past the hurdles in the search for quality.

I also formulate with the theme of using naturals where I can, and incorporating some key synthetics where prudent.

I have found ICSC to be very communicative…so just reach out to them…tell them where you live, and ask whom might be a re-seller of their product…or even ask for a sample….they have sent me many.

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MarkBroussard said:

@graillotion:

 Did you try Etsy? … LOL!

Hehehehe…. I was trying to minimize my failures….not maximize them! 

I got it mostly figured out now….I just had an upcoming project where I needed some Andiroba…and my usual suppliers did not have it…so I was having the branch out.

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aedina said:

l looked into ICSC , l could not find any prices there. Do they do only wholesale or?

Some people really want pure organic ,but complain about the scent. I honestly do not know what to do anymore. Personally, l can not tell the difference when l use both, my skin did not look magical after using unrefined.

l think vanilla or honey might be complimentary to the scent of shea.

l do see how rose, lavender and strawberry fragrance oils are quite popular, but l think a lot has to be used to mask the shea scent. 2,3,4% and even then shea scent is quite intense.

Yes…ICSC … is essentially wholesale.  But they are very good about sending samples via ULP.  They are also VERY good about selling smaller amounts than their MOQ….not a few ounces/grams….but maybe as little as a kilo or two.

If you live in the US….just buy it at: 

https://www.makeyourown.buzz/murumuru-butter/

They are a re-seller for ICSC.  

I don’t use shea….Once you try some of the other butters…Shea becomes a distant memory.  If you want lite and silky… Try their Murumuru.  If you want something that gives a deep long moisturizing feeling….try Illipe.  Want something like Shea, but not a greasy mess…try Kpangnan.  Cupuacu…also something to look at for hand and body.

https://www.makeyourown.buzz/kpagnan-butter/

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Once you get your hands on good refined butters….there is NO turning back.  I have tried them all… and the best, hands down are the Danish butters from ICSC.

If you live in the US…you can buy them small pack from MakeYourOwn.com

No bad odor, no smoky flavor, or dirt….just amazing stuff.

And you are spot on….the big cosmetic companies are not using the dirty stinky butters found on the home crafter sites.

[Graillotion]

I heard picking up a penny can be lucky.

[Graillotion]

I’ll just piggy back on to that….depending what you have on hand… 1% Montanov 68 will also add a nice richness to many emulsions.  It is part of how I convert my day creams to night creams.  

And…I simply couldn’t formulate without Cetyl Palmitate…the main constituent of Oliwax LC.

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MariaSelma said:

1. what do you mean by “as naturally as good stewardship allows” please develop !!

That means I do not like to slather myself in chemicals.  If I have a choice between a natural emollient and an artificial one, I will select the natural one, even if the cost is more.  It also means I use lots of naturally derived but processed ingredients.  As an example, one of the ingredients I use the most is Isoamyl Laurate…naturally derived…but not very natural.  Another example is Lauryl Laurate.  Both of these products make for an amazing feel….but guessing would not meet your criteria.

For emulsifiers I use Montanov 202 and GSC.  They are reasonably natural, but the first can be a little difficult to work with.

I also use the165 series emulsifier in a more basic lotion product.

I use hydrolyzed Jojoba esters in lieu of petrolatum.

When it comes to preservatives…. I think this is an area that you cannot get wrong.  I still prefer not to work with parabens and F releasers….but will be the first to admit they are the most effective.  Therefore I use science based hurdle technologies…that start with pH followed by trying to bind the free water, followed by a chelator, followed by a reputable preservative (E 9010) enhanced with Hydroxyacetophenone and phenethyl alcohol to preserve the head space.  

I am a fanatic about texture…so I use some rather processed ingredients to get a sensory that blows the mind.  But I am certain you won’t be interested in those ingredients.

….and me creams disappear into the skin…before the first stroke of your finger has finished it’s first pass.

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MariaSelma said:

i’m based on organic formulation … can you give me exmples of some nice textural items that match with the organic formulation ??

Like i said .. i’m a begginer and looking for advices from people with strong experience.

… and yes Vit E  is not a preservative, it’s an antioxydant (i used it for the lipid part) ..

I do not formulate organically, so I don’t believe I can provide organic examples.  I formulate as naturally as good stewardship allows, then finish with science.

The vitamin E I am familiar with….is very sticky… and will not enhance a texture.  I think you will also find that it does everything you are imagining it doing at .2%.  More of something good….is not always better.

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Haloul said:

@ngarayeva001 Im not preaching for anyone and I’m not associated with FB in any way! The professional approach you mentioned should not allow as well to attack a reputable school, you like it or not!

The only reputation they have…is among mommy bloggers.

Be careful what you say…this is a science based site… Not repeated hearsay.