Which bugs will colloidal oatmeal feed the most.

Formulating

Which bugs will colloidal oatmeal feed the most.

Posted by Graillotion on December 27, 2020 at 4:14 am

I am looking to enhance a preservative program for a product that I want to add colloidal oatmeal too. In order to properly enhance the program, it would be very helpful to know which bugs colloidal oatmeal will aggravate?

Yeast
Mold
Gram positive
Gram negative

Hehehe……hopefully the answer is not…. ALL OF THE ABOVE!

RedCoast replied 3 years, 2 months ago 7 Members · 19 Replies
19 Replies

Pharma

Member
December 27, 2020 at 9:40 am

No, it’s worse!

Oatmeal is also a great food and energy source for horses, Scots, darkling beetles, fruit flies, slime mould… Oatmeal is usually whole grain and generally a very rich and valuable source for nutrients and that makes it one of the ‘healthiest’ cereals for many different life-forms. Most microbes would agree too.

Sorry for the bad news.
PhilGeis

Member
December 27, 2020 at 10:45 am

The bugs don’t need much to contaminate. Oatmeal certainly works for them as pharma said and also redcues preservative efficacy.
Graillotion

Member
December 27, 2020 at 7:42 pm

PhilGeis said:

The bugs don’t need much to contaminate. Oatmeal certainly works for them as pharma said and also redcues preservative efficacy.

So I have spent way too many hours, trying to formulate a preservative program to accommodate the colloidal oatmeal, and have not yet come up with a component that I am comfortable with….that is neither a paraben or F releaser. Does it exist?
PhilGeis

Member
December 28, 2020 at 5:45 pm

It is a project - prob end up with a complex system.
Graillotion

Member
December 29, 2020 at 4:12 am

PhilGeis said:

It is a project - prob end up with a complex system.

I did not realize until just in the past 48 hours, that triethyl citrate is used as a preservative. I keep this on the bench for another product. Just curious how you felt this fit into a program of E. 9010, chelator, Pentylene glycol, Phenethyl alcohol? Redundancy or extra layer?
PhilGeis

Member
December 29, 2020 at 2:25 pm

I’d not expect much from triethyl citrate and wonder at phenethyl if 9010.
Look at similar, marketed products, esp. those from major companies. Think adding a more water soluble preservative and something for fungi will help. Are you budgeted to do range finding PET testing?
Graillotion

Member
December 29, 2020 at 7:12 pm

PhilGeis said:

I’d not expect much from triethyl citrate and wonder at phenethyl if 9010.
Look at similar, marketed products, esp. those from major companies. Think adding a more water soluble preservative and something for fungi will help. Are you budgeted to do range finding PET testing?

Yes, but only once or twice. Therefore trying to get it right, before spending the money. Which (more) water soluble preservatives would you have in mind?
PhilGeis

Member
December 29, 2020 at 9:01 pm

Formaldehyde releaser, organic acid if pH works. Is context rinse off or leave on? Hot process? How clean is your otameal nd what is package design?
Bo77

Member
December 29, 2020 at 11:17 pm

I love to add Sodium Hydroxymethylglycinate to my preservative combo. It goes under Suttocide A from Ashland. But it’s formaldehyde releaser, I don’t know if you looking for something more “natural”. But it’s “naturally derived”. I mix it with other preservatives like Silver Citrate and Citric Acid( Silverion) and bacillus ferment like AMTicide VAF(great for mold and yeast) this combo works very well for my products. Not all but most. Worked for cream with beta glucan in it.

EDIT: now I see you are looking for something no f releaser. Sorry.
Graillotion

Member
December 30, 2020 at 1:36 am

Bo77 said:

I love to add Sodium Hydroxymethylglycinate to my preservative combo. It goes under Suttocide A from Ashland. But it’s formaldehyde releaser, I don’t know if you looking for something more “natural”. But it’s “naturally derived”. I mix it with other preservatives like Silver Citrate and Citric Acid( Silverion) and bacillus ferment like AMTicide VAF(great for mold and yeast) this combo works very well for my products. Not all but most. Worked for cream with beta glucan in it.

EDIT: now I see you are looking for something no f releaser. Sorry.

Looking for: Yes
Will end up with: Not sure.

Do you consider beta glucan…an equal level of bug food as colloidal oatmeal? I would assume less….but do not know the entire chemistry.

So on that note…. and this question is for everyone….of the F releasers, which one is most likely to fly under the consumer radar….as in which one will they most likely not be aware of….yet is still effective at a low rate?
Bo77

Member
December 30, 2020 at 5:04 am

“Do you consider beta glucan…an equal level of bug food as colloidal oatmeal? I would assume less….but do not know the entire chemistry.”

What I tried ( long time ago) was VenaSilk,( I think). Naturally derived from oat flour. 10% BG. INCI: hydrolyzed oat flour. ( hated it) but that’s not the point. )
ngarayeva001

Member
December 30, 2020 at 7:42 am

Back to Dr. Geis’s advice, have a look at Aveeno. It’s a well known brand under Johnson&Johnson. It has a variety of products and their entire marketing story is based on oatmeal. I had a quick flick through and as always there’s no one size fits all answer. Several highlights: The packaging is in most cases doesn’t allow consumer to introduce additional challenge, they don’t use parabens (although I recall seeing it in some of their products several years ago), they use complex preservative systems with multiple elements (from cationics to organic acids). Depending on your budget this project might not be commercially feasible. You would end up sending your product to test multiple times and failing it multiple times.
ngarayeva001

Member
December 30, 2020 at 7:56 am

To illustrate how the approach changes based on type of product:

https://incidecoder.com/products/aveeno-daily-moisturising-after-shower-mist

https://incidecoder.com/products/aveeno-moisturising-lotion

https://incidecoder.com/products/aveeno-sensitive-skin-spf-50-mineral-sunscreen

https://incidecoder.com/products/aveeno-calming-cleanser hah! Found one with good old parabens

I absolutely love INCIDecoder for researching what ‘big guys’ do. I know some members of this forum dislike it for labeling ingredients as good or bad, (which I agree should be ignored). In their defense, it’s not as bad as, say EWG and rather convenient for searching. They even have an advanced search and allow looking up combinations of ingredients. Search can also be run by brands and ingredients.
Graillotion

Member
December 30, 2020 at 10:05 pm

Bo77 said:

“Do you consider beta glucan…an equal level of bug food as colloidal oatmeal? I would assume less….but do not know the entire chemistry.”

What I tried ( long time ago) was VenaSilk,( I think). Naturally derived from oat flour. 10% BG. INCI: hydrolyzed oat flour. ( hated it) but that’s not the point. )

What did you hate about it?
Graillotion

Member
December 30, 2020 at 10:55 pm

PhilGeis said:

How clean is your otameal

“Total count less than 100 colonies per gram.
Absence of recognized pathogens.”

Would that be considered pretty clean?
PhilGeis

Member
December 31, 2020 at 2:21 pm

count yes - but “recognized pathogens” is not enough. An y Gram negative bacteria?
abierose

Member
February 18, 2021 at 6:36 am

@Graillotion Did you ever find or come up with an effective preservative system that could handle the colloidal oatmeal? I’m using it in a couple of lotions I make and it is literally the only thing I have ever seen mold (which happened at about 3 months).

Also, I use it in conjunction with hydrolyzed oats in one product…would this have the same preservative challenges as the colloidal oatmeal?
Graillotion

Member
February 18, 2021 at 7:01 am

abierose said:

@Graillotion Did you ever find or come up with an effective preservative system that could handle the colloidal oatmeal? I’m using it in a couple of lotions I make and it is literally the only thing I have ever seen mold (which happened at about 3 months).

Also, I use it in conjunction with hydrolyzed oats in one product…would this have the same preservative challenges as the colloidal oatmeal?

Yes…colloidal oatmeal is a super food for bugs. Any purchased hydrolyzed product will all ready be preserved, so less of a concern. However, as you blend it out in a formula, it could again become a concern (bugfood) if your preservative system is not on point. But the whole formula will be at risk for the same reason…oat products or not. These issues are easily handled with a paraben blend, or some of the F releasers. If you choose the more difficult route of working around those two preservatives….better be sharp on your chemistry. I work with a chemist that keeps me in line. If you don’t have that luxury…stick with the afore mentioned preservatives.
RedCoast

Member
March 5, 2021 at 3:23 am

Adding my 2 cents in, because colloidal oatmeal has been a pet project of mine for a while.

Colloidal oatmeal is one of the best bug food there is. Microbes just love starches and all the other goodies that are in oatmeal. Mold will be the first (and most obvious) to attack, but other microbes will be inevitable. Also, keep in mind that microbes can feed on other microbes.

You will have to make at least one major compromise on your final product. It could be:

-Viscosity and skin feel

-Other ingredients in the product, especially claims ones

-Packaging

-Specific preservatives

-% of colloidal oatmeal

-Consumer perception

If you’re trying to avoid using parabens or formadehyde-releasers, you’re in for a challenge. Expect to fail a challenge test more times if you don’t use them.

You may want to take a look at this product for some ideas: https://incidecoder.com/products/gold-bond-ultimate-eczema-relief-cream