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CB007 said:

No chelator- as requested by client

Cetyl Alcohol, Stearic Acid for emulsifiers…plus the Carbomer for water phase thickening.  

Is client smart enough to know what a chelator does for the formula?  Do they know about options like GLDA or sodium phytate?  I can understand not wanting EDTA…..but sometimes the formulator has to step in and educate the client?  (Maybe that is just me.)

Was 6.5 pH really the target?  

Cetyl alcohol and Stearic assist with making an emulsion stable…but in who’s book are the primary emulsifiers?  And there are so many decent ones now days….that are considered….’natural’.   

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You did not state the pH.
What are you using as the chelate?
Did you list your emulsifier?
I would not suspect…stearic acid.  (But I would not include that much in anything I wanted to feel nice.)

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You could sure start with the first line!

Is this the full formula?  Looks like (important) things are missing!

After you fix the first line…then you can start tweaking…. like switch the fatty alcohols to less unctuous feeling ones, like  behenyl….add some absorption enhancers….consider some starch…etc.

Personally that much dimethicone feels oily to me.  But that is just me.  I would cut it at least 50%.  Put it on your skin neat….see what you think.

Might help…if you said what kind of lotion…or the goal of the lotion.

If you include oily/greasy feeling ingredients in your formula, it is quite the task to remove that feeling.  The easiest way…is don’t include them to begin with, or include them at amounts that don’t make the product feel greasy.

Put your ingredients on your skin neat…and you will know which ones give the undesirable feel.

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Sometimes GLDA is hard to find…so I’ll include a link:

TSGD (Tetrasodium Glutamate Diacetate)-STA-TSGD-01 (makingcosmetics.com)

I like that one, because it comes as a liquid, and is one less powder I have to wonder if it went into solution.  (Since this one is only about 50% active ingredient…I would not hug the bottom end of use rate….but around .2% at least.

If you are only making for yourself…and using within a very short amount of time….you can get by without chelators.  But if you ever aspire to sell anything, might as well get used to formulating with them.

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EDTA is a chelator….so it does not have to be exactly EDTA, there are a number of options that do about the same thing.

A more natural approach to chelating would be things like GLDA or Sodium phytate.

But yes….chelates are very important, on multiple levels.

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Check the search bar.

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Never mind….I found it, along with episode #1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7rIdimJZi0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij2D209Y4K0

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justaerin said:

There’s a new one today! These are great!

For those of us that don’t know where to find this….can you include a link?  

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Awesome input.

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Farrukh said:

Tell me about the percentage of sodium metabisulfite to use in soap and others

I don’t make or work with soaps… So I do not know the rate for that type of product, however they are used at very low rates….

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Oh…totally spaced out on another one I use… @pma

Amino Acid n-acetyl cysteine, aka: NAC.

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Awesome to put a face with a name.  I have gotten some great tips from Matt in the past couple of years!

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@Perry, is it still legal to add Cholecalciferol to a cosmetic emulsion in the USA?  I can still find Vitamin D creams on Amazon and such.

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zetein said:

It was banned.

In the US?  I know it was in the EU.

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Search bar in upper right side of the screen works pretty well.

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Any fatty alcohol.

All will impart a different feel, so you’ll have to sample through them until you find one you like the best.

Also consider the polymeric emulsifiers…like Aristoflex AVC…they impart a gel undertone…that makes things feel good.

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BTW…you are missing some fundamental pieces of a basic formula.

You have no humectant….in reality…oils don’t moisturize…they only lubricate.  Humectants as an example would be …. glycerin, and many many other items.

You have very weak barrier function.  This is what holds the moisture in…once you establish it.  If you don’t build a fence to hold it in….it will be gone very quickly, and it will need to be reapplied hourly.  

This site has a search bar…..you can receive a full education here, buy just reading old threads….and it is FREE.

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Cut the butter by 5%
Tell us which oil….there are all kinds.
Sub some or all of the stearic for fatty alcohol (behenyl will give drier feel).
Add some IPM
Consider other emulsifiers…they all have their own feel.

Long and the short….if your formula feels greasy….it’s cuz you’re adding too much grease!

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domicanica said:

Thanks a lot, I’m really excited about using it in my lotions, everything I’ve heard about it is amazing. Thanks for telling me about pentylene glycol too. I was previously chasing the “wet feel” with jojoba because that’s how it feels neat but it just didn’t do it for me in the actual products.

Add 1-1.5% cyclomethicone…and it will also enhance that feel.

…And of course…use of a fast breaking polymeric….these all add up….to stunning!

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suswang8 said:

Does anyone know of any negatives (downsides) to using sucrose stearate (other than price and difficulty to find)? 

Not too hard to find:
Sucrose Stearate-EMF-SUSTE-01 (makingcosmetics.com)

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domicanica said:

thanks for the tip about pentylene glycol. you know, i think it’s you i saw on this forum talking about KW20… do you still enjoy using it in emulsions or have you found something better?

Still in love with it…. there aren’t many things in cosmetics…that you can keeping increasing the inclusion rate…and it generally just enhances the formula…without adding weight, stickiness, oiliness, or making the skin feel smothered.  
It is in every formula I make….and every formula…asks something different from it.  One formula…only asks for extension of EO’s.   (It is a mild fixative.)

And yes…  I also love pentylene G…makes my moisturizers feel sooo ‘wet’ when they go on.

I think there are a number on this forum that use it….and maybe we don’t tend to mention it much…because we kinda think…it is our secret weapon…hehehe.

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You can use other things besides glycerin… If you are using propanediol, or pentylene glycol, it also makes a good solvant for KW20….in fact Pentylene glycol is more effective than the glycerin.  I make my slurry…with any glycerin plus the  glycols.  The higher percentage of solvent, the quicker it goes into solution.

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Ooops…typo… Just read my first comment…. It should have read….I take all my formulas to 4.5 to 4.9.

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Graillotion 

I can only imagine what the SDS is for water. 

Well…I was half way kidding…. but I did find the SDS for water! 

Looks like California did not find it as posing a risk…so I guess we’re all OK.

https://fscimage.fishersci.com/msds/89955.htm#:~:text=Deionized Water ACC%23 89955 Section 1,23751628%2C 25065%2C 57084%2C 57084A Synonyms%3A Company Identification%3A

If you spill it, follow these guidlines (per SDS):

General Information: Use proper personal protective equipment as indicated in Section 8.
Spills/Leaks: Absorb the liquid and scrub the area with detergent and water.

And if first aid is required (per SDS):

Eyes: If irritation develops, get medical aid.
Skin: Get medical aid if irritation develops or persists.
Ingestion: Get medical aid if irritation or symptoms occur.
Inhalation: Get medical aid if cough or other symptoms appear.
Notes to Physician: Treat symptomatically and supportively.

And last but not least….if you live in the EU:

Safety Phrases:
S 24/25 Avoid contact with skin and eyes.

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Mfg’s have to write SDS’s for the complete idiot.  They have no idea how someone will use their product….so they err to the cautious side.

I can only imagine what the SDS is for water.