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Chemistry degrees come in different forms….4 year…6 year…and PhD…  

Depends on the company you end up with.

You could work for yourself….and make NOTHING….or…. make $$$ beyond your wildest dreams.

If you want to be happy in life… Chase your passions….not the $$$.

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Kinda like ‘natural’, the terms you used have been a little vague and misused.  To me a cosmetic chemist is someone that works in the arena of cosmetics and HAS A CHEMISTRY degree.  A cosmetic formulator is someone with some background and experience formulating in cosmetics but may lack the official chemistry degree.  They may have a degree in another field, or lack one altogether, but experience as we all know, is the best teacher.

As far as natural formulator, vs chemist.  Absolutely get the chemistry degree.  Having a chemistry degree does NOT preclude you from becoming a natural formulator, it simply means you will understand how your natural ingredients will function and interact.  Doing things vice versa will ONLY short-change you and your knowledge.

At the beginner level….that is a little like comparing a couple of the common online course offerings.  One will give you the background to understand the overall concept, and the other has little regard for how things work, just needs to be natural (safety and the mechanics….who cares).  😮 (Note: I do not condone either one!) 

If you live in the USA…I think University of Cincinatti has some very good offerings for those wanting to pursue a career in cosmetic formulation.

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tinas said:

Thank you - I think the main problem is that Emulsifying wax NF is not listed in Cosmos standard raw materials.

If you want an equally heavy feeling emulsifier….you could try the other commonly used one.  OliveM 1000.

As many of us do not keep up with the self-appointed standard setting pseudo establishments….I would have NO IDEA who it is approved with.  But based on the INCI…I would guess it would meet that format.

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Lawrencia21 said:

1% Germall plus preservative 

Any help please ???? 

Why so much preservative?  If Liquid, mfg recommendation is:

.1 to .5%

If powder:

.05 to .2%

Almost looks like you’re getting your ideas from mommy blogger sites???

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Thank you!

Glad to know I don’t need to chase this rabbit down the hole.

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Cetearyl alcohol can be added to virtually any emulsifier.  It is a builder/thickener/haptic enhancer.

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Well…no emulsifiers grow on trees…  

but you could look at Montanov:

68
202
L

Or this one…which I use as a co-emulsifier on about every one of my projects.

FSS GLYCERYL STEARATE CITRATE (formulatorsampleshop.com)

Do NOT confuse this with Glyceryl (mono) Stearate…even though the names sound similar.

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Please list your pH.

Have you considered using MAP?

Vitamin C Esters: Are ATIP and THDA the Same Thing? | Lab Muffin Beauty Science

Ultimate Vitamin C Skincare Guide Part 1: Ascorbic Acid (with video) | Lab Muffin Beauty Science

Easy (5 Minute) DIY Vitamin C Serum Recipe | Lab Muffin Beauty Science

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A lot of this will be contingent on if the product is consumed…or applied to skin.  

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Something that has caught my eye recently….(not enough to buy any)… was fermented cod liver oil.

As you know…in an oil, most everything is tied up in a triglyceride.  Fermentation can spring these bonds…and possibly allow some value enhancement.

Take a peek at this article.  I am not condoning, just making you aware.  You are probably aware of several Korean companies, that are fermenting various cosmetic oils.

Update on Fermented Cod Liver Oil - The Weston A. Price Foundation (westonaprice.org)

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Squinny said:

I’m probably considered a ‘mummy blogger’ in your terms - though I’m not a mummy or blogger! Anyway FWIW I wouldn’t put Stearic acid in an eye cream personally. I have only used it a few times and have had mixed results - last time the product (hand cream) went grainy and according to New Directions Aust “Manufacturing Notes:  Add into the oil phase and heat thoroughly. Stearic Acid doesn’t melt until 69-71C and can cause granulation in your finished product if not properly mixed in.” So I obviously didn’t heat properly when I made the cream (probably being impatient on my behalf). I haven’t found it to give my a creamy consistency any time I have used it so I tend not to - even though I’ve got a 1 Kg sitting there mocking me to use it. Again FWIW I would look at popular/expensive brands and what is in their eye creams - find the one you like best and do a dupe on that. 
For instance the ingredients in Clinique’s Eye Cream or check other you might like the look of. 
Clinique All About Eyes™ ingredients (Explained) (incidecoder.com)

I find around the eye area I want a cream/gel/serum that glides on skin easily (not too much rubbing in) and find I it better personally to use a cream or eye serum at night before bed so it can do whatever whilst I sleep. Sometimes in the morning (or after a late night ha ha) I use my homemade eye gel (which I did a dupe on based on various gels) that contains pure caffeine and soothing ingredients including cucumber extract.
I guess you also need to decide what you are targeting with your eye product - wrinkles, dark circles, bags etc. or you want a miracle cream that does all! Anyway just my 2 cents worth as not too many other comments to date. Cheers - hope my post helps and if not at least I tried.

I ONLY shoot for miracles.   So yes…all of the above.  When you have several advisors…and each has their own favorite players…. well you end up in the miracle section of formulating. 

I actually made version 6 yesterday….went back to basics, since something in the extended INCI was giving grief… Used 165 as primary, and Zen and GSC as secondaries.  Got the job done.  I did add the 1% stearic, and overall, it is delightful, albeit probably not fully ripened.

I never have an issue with glide…as a couple of friendly laurates (Isoamyl and lauryl) tend to make a big splash going into my formulas…and what formula would be complete without a glug of D5 at the end?  

Since behenyl alcohol is my poison….my temps are always higher than most formulators, hence NO issue with getting the stearic melted.  Even prior to converting to behenyl….never had any issue with that.

Aloha.

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Pharma said:

Never going down that rabbit hole again, my arse! Your Floraesters K-20W is potassium soap of jojoba oil :smiley: .

How long have you been holding that ACE in your sleave?  I know you love to tease my K-20W. 

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Well, let me include an add-on for this post that no one wants to touch.   

I do not plan on utilizing the old trick of neutralizing the stearic, and asking it to help out with emulsification, but due to my curious nature…  I would like to know….if we go through this process, of creating a stearate soap….does this dramatically alter the haptics (and thickening abilities) of how it will perform in formula?  In other words….will the formula feel the same…if we have un-neutralized stearic acid, vs the same formula that we neutralized, and created a stearate soap?  I would have to assume….haptics would be different…but due to my curious nature….I want to know…even if I never go down that old path.

Am I asking too much….if I want to know how that would alter the haptics?

Aloha.

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Preferably the most common O/W emulsifier.  

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nhatnguyen10 said:

Squinny said:

Ingredients to Die for - check them out. The largest is 50 lbs but you can buy more than 1 of each product. Have  a look at their website or ring them.
Stearyl Alcohol NF (ingredientstodiefor.com)

11110 Metric Blvd Ste D, Austin, TX 78758

+1 (512) 535-2711

I will reach out to them!
Thank you so much!
i also looking to buy some in china for better price. Any experience you have before?

Thank you

If you do not have the ability of testing inbound goods… I would be a little leery of the Chinese market.  One other alternative is to find out which ‘Chinese vendors’ the big boys are using…and try to piggyback on their quality and purity requirements.

…Butt diving blindly into the Chinese market….hmmmn!  😮

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No one can help…without percentages.

That would be like asking advice for concrete…without listing the percentages of the things you used.

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Gordof said:

I would assume it is the combination of Butters and Hard Waxes together with the Starch which helps with the rub-off. although Ceramide will give a pleasant feel afterward. 

I did see the corn starch hiding there….and as I have recently fallen in love with an Agrana corn starch (distarch phosphate).  I was wondering if it did not play in.

This product has none of the heavy wax feel…of typical commercial products.

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You are using a cationic….are you sure the preservative is the issue?  There are all kinds of antagonist with that system.

Have you considered: Glyceryl Stearate (and) PEG 100 Stearate?  That is about as reliable as it gets.

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Thank you @EVchem .

I also came across this one:

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If you are having trouble with destabilization with that…. It sounds like you need to build a better mouse trap (emulsion)….  

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Total side bar:

Came across this…. Efficacy of Several Organic Acids Against Molds - ScienceDirect

Not what I was looking for…but begged me to ask….it looks like preservatives are not using the most efficient organic acid.  Is this because the good ones….aren’t skin tolerant….or GRAS?

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Does it look like CBD will be available in the land of the Alps soon?

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Pharma said:

Unadulterated willow bark does not contain salicylic acid but salicin, a salicylic alcohol glucoside . Aspen may contain a small amount of free but more likely bound salicylic acid (most plants do contain small amounts thereof because it’s an important plant hormone) which might be higher than in other species (but still not high enough to be a valuable source for its isolation because, as said, it has a strong effect on plant growth and health). Nonetheless, the main salicylate constituent in aspen is salicin, too.

Only products from Active Micro Technologies contain salicylic acid… as a scientific report has shown, petrochemistry based SA has been added. So yes, the two plant extracts are highly likely to be adulterated with synthetic salicylic acid at unknown and varying levels (alongside some questionable quaternary ammonium compounds) and this might probably be a source for colour fomation (though proper chelation should minimise that). Reminds me of something: Where are the antioxidants in that formulation?

Bingo…. The Luecidal people sell lots of extracts (via several repackers)…all laced with their nasty product.  I think you nailed it.

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Pharma said:

I have set my Windows calculator to ‘scientific’… comes with the ‘log’ function (though estimating based on pka vs. pH works good enough for me). *Cough-cough*

I need something….for someone with a little less knowledge.  

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BTW….in that series….I think HelioFeel…is a little stronger (better design).

INCI Name:

Glyceryl Stearate Citrate (and) Polyglyceryl-3 Stearate (and) Hydrogenated Lecithin