Graillotion
Forum Replies Created
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BTW….isn’t ‘ramping down’ the formula for creating super bugs? ????
I would have to imagine…Inolex did some basic testing to come up with their recommendations. If they wanted to sell more product…they could have just increased the filler ingredient, and upped the use rate.
As I recall…some preservatives actually become ‘bug food’ if you get the rates too low. Not saying in regards to this one….but applies to some.
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The answer will always be…. depends on the rest of the system. Fill it with tons of hurdles and hexanediol, should be no sweat. Forget about hurdles and fill it with bug food….Not a chance. 🙂
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I did not at all mean to infer…that the continuation of lowering pH will not enhance micro. It will continue to diminish the happiness of bugs as you go lower. The numbers I suggested…are the ultimate compromise. My numbers also assume you are using a primary preservative…and not just pH as your prevention system.
Just remember…pH of coca cola…is 2.5. Never heard of people heading to hospital burn unit…when some is spilled on their skin. I have even heard of people…that drink the stuff! ????
Emulsified deo….is a soothing cream deo, devoid of irritants. It is simply a different delivery system for the actives. One additional benefit…it allows for the use of water soluble ingredients/actives. I have never been able to use commercial products, other than aerosols, this system allows me to use a more eco friendly option.
As I said earlier… continued lowering of pH … does decrease microbial happiness, there was performance enhancement with dropping of pH to the level I ended with. One of the biggest players in this space…also uses this pH. Good luck… picture is of major commercial deo…
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Don’t work in the area….but have read enough forums…to know a lot of people like this one.
Poly Suga®Mulse D9 - Colonial Chemical Inc. | US-Made Chemicals
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I am not a microbiologist….but I think you will get most of the antimicrobial benefit at 4.6 to 4.8. Why not slide up a bit (unless something else was driving the target pH)? I would also mention there might be a slight advantage of hitting the target pH via lactic acid, over citric.
When I tested various acids for dropping the pH of an emulsified deo to 3.8, lactic produced the best results for subjects with sensitive skin.
Good Luck.
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Have you looked at: Isostearyl isostearate?
According to Mr Deckner…it is pure magic. ????
Have your cake…and eat it too?
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First one…I get here: LipidSoftTM Dry (Dicaprylyl Carbonate) (myskinrecipes.com)
Last one… FSS has it. (and they have a sale right now)
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Find a commercial ‘Benchmark’ … and knock it off! 🙂
That means …. find something you like… that someone is already making….look at the INCI….and make it. If you can provide the INCI…we can probably give you starting points on the percentages.
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Based on description…. I would look first at the preservative. Have you used this combo on other products you use….without an issue? Many of the perceived ‘natural’ preservatives…are quite irritating…and they forget to mention that in the marketing material. ????
If this is the first time using this combo….do a knockout…using an entirely different set of preservatives.
You also have a LOT of glycerol! Some people will react to that high a rate…consider cutting that with other humectants…and topping out the glycerol at say 3%…maybe 4.
As well…any natural lipid can cause issues with a certain subset… Have you used this (batch) shea butter…in other projects without issue? You did list it as unrefined…which invites a HOST of impurities…. who knows what fell into that…in the village.
PS: I’d probably add a little more emulsifier…that is a pretty big lipid load for that much emulsifier. Don’t forget a chelate.
Good Luck.
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While we’re tweaking…you could consider changing your acid to lactic…and you don’t need that much Panthenol. 🙂
Citric is used in industry due to low cost. Lactic is a little nicer on the skin…and should be used in products for yourself…and those you love.
Is the fragrance…one you have used before….or new to this project?
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You might like: Caprylyl Caprylate/Caprate
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I have it on order….so have not yet used it. For any that have…would love to hear some feedback….what your paired it with…and how you viewed the haptics. (And maybe what you paired it with…that gave the best haptics.)
Initially, I will probably play with it in conjuction with GSC, but will also look at it with Mont 202 (and less GSC).
I will support it with typical builders.
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Wow…speak of the devil, @PhilGeis
Check this out: A blinding bacteria, four dead and an everyday brand blamed: What we know about the US eye drop recall (msn.com)
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Sounds like you are dealing with a phase inversion.
Add the oil phase slowly to the water phase…while under stirring.
It is hard to analyze a formula…when we don’t have the formula.
The best co-emulsifiers…are anionic…as long as there are no other conflicting ingredients. However…that will not address your phase inversion.
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Oh @chemicalmatt and @MarkBroussard I blame you two for me not being able to retain an intellectual thought today…during my normal thinking period (that is the hour I have the weedeater strapped on most days…..Yeah…some disadvantages…of living in Paradise). All I could think of was someone googling “is the Zechstein sea and it’s precious minerals, guarded by Kraken’.
You two…are too funny!
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If something were ‘straightforward’ in cosmetics….wouldn’t that almost be grounds for precluding it from cosmetics? ????????
But yes….. the term ‘broad spectrum’ should closely match up with PET testing protocols…in my opinion…as well!
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You could make millions….selling that in the US. ????
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I guess it depends where you live. I get mine here (USA):
Hydrovance – Majestic Mountain Sage, Inc. (thesage.com)
@denise.berger
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Thank you Dr Geis. I guess I have my reading cut out for me…over the next few days. Hopefully it is rainy…in the rain forest. ????
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Dr Geis, @PhilGeis the reference 16 was this….and I do not have this book:
- E.Cahill, Benzyl Alcohol Monograph in: R.C. Rowe, P.J. Sheskey, P. J. Weller (Eds.), Handbook of Pharmaceutical Excipients, Fifth Edition, Pharmaceutical Press, 2006, pp. 69-71
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Do what we call a knock-out experiment. Change one thing…of the likely culprits. If you still have LGPlus leftover…just make the smallest possible batch, using that (assuming you have used it before without issue), and that will answer the question….was the preservative the issue with ‘my’ skin.
You pH is absolutely perfect! Don’t change it.
Then make a second small batch (assuming the first trial did not fix things) using either no fragrance…or a fragrance you have used extensively in the past. Guessing you will have your answer.
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Dr Geis, @PhilGeis I came across this chart, which discusses the efficacy of benzyl alcohol based on pH. Naturally one knows the organic acids want a lower pH…but I had not seen this before. It does not show the rate of fall off…as pH increases. I believe I had read (maybe not true) that as pH rises, Benzyl alcohol is pretty much relegated to Y/M/F activity, and becomes progressively weaker on bacteria as pH rises?
Now the chart does title the category ‘optimal efficacy’…so maybe there is not a lot of ‘fall off’ of efficacy with rise of pH, in relation to Benz alcohol?
Could you elaborate…on the efficacy of Benz alcohol, in relation to this marketing blurb…and protection up to 8!!! We have already established the acids are worth ‘Jack Zero’ (stolen verbage)…. but what is happening to Benzyl…as we slide up the pH scale….to 8?
Thank You. From the grasshopper.
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Thank You Dr Geis….awesome as always.
Hehehe…and the natural ones they flock to…. typically weak on gram -. ☹
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Hehehe…..there are hundreds of ‘natural silicone replacements’ on the market.
We will notify you…when a good one finally gets here. ????
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@PhilGeis What would be your favorite “Gram - ” add-on….that would appeal to the ‘natural’ crowd? (I know…probably an oxymoron.)
Seems like a number of combos sold…are a touch weak in this segment. Preferably….don’t answer….phenoxy….hehehhe.