Graillotion
Forum Replies Created
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While we are on the topic …. why has O-Cymen-5-ol not made many in-roads into preservation (or as many as I would have expected)…as part of an overall package? @PhilGeis , do you not see it as a nice snap in piece to an overall package?
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In the case of deo….film formers are generally not the approach taken…as they tend to increase sweat.
Do this little experiment…. Take a dab of any O/W emulsion….drop it in a beaker of water….and swirl for a minute. Do the same with a W/O emulsion…. See if this is not what you are looking for. 🙂
Aloha.
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I am not sure I understand the question…. So I’ll start with….cationic emulsifiers….until there is more clarification. ????
Maybe apply your knowledge of hair care products…and how they achieve staying power …. in the shower.
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When I experimented with Zeolite….and I was working on a project for very VERY sensitive skin. I was using it under the only context of it increased surface area….hence expediting evaporation. I did find it was MORE irritating than the powders that ultimately ended up in the product…so it never made the final product. My concept has NO odor catching in it. Only odor prevention.
Aloha.
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This forum…has a message inbox….I sent you a message….make sure you find it. 🙂
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There are a couple of approaches in deo….one is….don’t worry too much about the bugs…just catch the odor they produce.
I am not real keen on that approach…to me…the cows are already out of the barn…and you’re trying to close the door.
The other approach is… minimize bug levels to the point they don’t create enough odor, to offend the user, or those in proximity. I like this approach much better…but this is just personal opinion. So…the solution for this system involves lower bug population…and keeping it there. As you know…a low pH product applied to skin…the skin will in very short order…return the pH to the pH it wants…..so an initial application…might give 30-60 min of the desired effect of pH. If only there was an ingredient…that could extend this lower pH…for a longer amount of time… (you know…kinda like a buffer system). ????????
I think the other aspect is finding ingredients…that have a little staying power…..if you want extended protection. If you look at products of yester-year….there was something called Triclosan, that did a bang up job as a deo active. Well, that is of course yester-year….so if only there was something more natural….that did what Triclosan did…. ????????
If you think about it long enough….you’ll figure it out. 🙂
Aloha.
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I guess we are wondering….there are absolutely bullet proof ways to make amazing deo….why would you spend big $$$ for suspect ingredients….when the good ones are cheap….and right in front of you?
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I have such sensitive pits….that all emollients have to be tested neat on the pits. Those that also double as a solvent…tend to irritate. When I tried Undecane (and) Tridecane, I thought I was going to have to check into a hospital burn unit!
I did find an interesting ingredient…when I was testing emolients neat the other day… C12-13 Alkyl Lactate…tested neat….performed (odor control) as well as ANY commercial deo…I had ever tried. However…it does have a bit of a persistent chemical smell. I tried adding it at 2% to my existing formula….and it did not create any additional enhancement….but it is being added into a world class product….so I guess I could not assume it would.
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EHG is a potentiator. Helps thing like Phenoxy do a better job….EHG is the cell membrane disruptor.
Not sure what you mean…by just Gram -…as Phenoxy will also zap the gram +.
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When you science does not get in the way of your thoughts…. Then stearic acid can be anything you imagine it to be. Ignorance is such a ‘freeing’ concept…where ignorance is bliss. 🙂
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I always work under the pretense….they are trying to pull something over on me. Guilty until proven innocent…Right? ????
Just out of curiosity @PhilGeis … I am working with a top notch supplier…. and she is looking to add another preservative to her options…that would check all the boxes….for Gram +/- and YMF. Assuming a proper pH and chelate….a kiss of supporting members (glycols)… What have you seen at the wholesale level….that you would feel comfortable with…that a ‘natural’ formulator would also feel comfortable with? Context is probably natural lipid based moisturizing emulsions. (She already offers PE 9010 …. so I think a soup that contains Phenoxy…would be acceptable.) Hoping for something with better activity on YMF….would be the main point in adding the additional option.
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Whaaaaaaaaaaaaat? You have shattered my world. You mean….they don’t have my best interest in mind…and might be chasing the all mighty $$$… and not the ‘greater good’? ????
Hehehe… I always thought….if someone were assigned a stand up comedy gig…at a cosmetic conference/convention, you could make an entire comedy routine out of preservation claims. ????
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You may have misunderstood what I implied.
My comment was…it did not extend/enhance the performance of the existing vehicle. Therefore it was of no value to me. However…if I was starting over…and looking for candidates…it would certainly be on the ‘short list’. 🙂
It simply could not earn a spot…on an already crowded ‘team bus’.
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That you…this is the exact information I need.
Aloha.
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It is hard to distinguish what is promoted by the organization, and what is promoted by the graduates. But I would have to think…this is supported by the organization…as a number of graduates have told me…thinking outside the given ‘box’, is essentially prohibited and certainly frowned upon. 🙂
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Hehehe…..I am still writing the article on said preservative. I have been consulting with 4 different PhD’s on the topic, including Dr Phil Geis…. I just needed a break from the group…to gather my sanity… Plus my kids are visiting from the mainland.
The certificate holders….will become extremely violent…when I post it…. I need to be rested up. 🙂
Aloha.
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EHG is a well known member of an elite set of constituents for deo. It works synergistically with other ingredients to manage the bugs. Deo is ALL ABOUT….bug management. Human body does not produce odor!
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That is a formulation issue…Not a packaging issue.
I do not have that issue. 🙂
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Yes…it comes as a powder.
I also believe they use it….because it has a nice ‘claim’ ring to it. 🙂
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The reason Lume (IMHO) uses the acid they do…other than novel claim ingredient… is that is comes in a powder form. A non issue…for their emulsion….but pretty important in their anhydrous product…as they can suspend it.
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The enclosed pic…Is Lume. 🙂 You have seen it before.
I tried their (Lume’s) acid….as well as a pile of others…and lactic was the nicest for sensitive skin. I should mention…for those without sensitive skin….they were fine with any of the acids I trialed.
When Lume went from cream to stick… they went anhydrous….so a very different animal.
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Yes….the cream deo’s all have to have a similar delivery container. This was an early version, final viscosity was higher than shown. Mine looks like this:
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UL Prospector.
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Did they provide any supporting material along with this recommendation? (I mean other than cost savings.)