Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating General Should I read anything into this slate swap?

  • Should I read anything into this slate swap?

    Posted by Graillotion on June 14, 2023 at 1:30 am

    I was looking at a low grade preservative….and couldn’t help but notice a deviation of the slate of pathogens. That always leads me to think they are up to something. Why is the aspergillus niger swapped out with A.brasiliensis? Everything else is the standard slate!


    Any thoughts? @PhilGeis


    • This discussion was modified 11 months, 1 week ago by  Graillotion.
    • This discussion was modified 11 months, 1 week ago by  Graillotion.
    Graillotion replied 11 months, 1 week ago 2 Members · 9 Replies
  • 9 Replies
  • PhilGeis

    Member
    June 14, 2023 at 5:15 am

    Nothing wrong here - but another weak preservative system. The USP Aspergillus niger isolate (ATCC 16404) used for so many decades was renamed A. brasiliensis early in this century. It is the same fungus.

    https://www.atcc.org/products/16404

    • This reply was modified 11 months, 1 week ago by  PhilGeis.
  • PhilGeis

    Member
    June 14, 2023 at 5:57 am

    add - it’s not a pathogen. Think it was isolated from a blueberry.

    Here’s the ref for name change - https://www.microbiologyresearch.org/content/journal/ijsem/10.1099/ijs.0.65021-0

    and good catch!

    • This reply was modified 11 months, 1 week ago by  PhilGeis.
    • Graillotion

      Member
      June 14, 2023 at 3:55 pm

      I always work under the pretense….they are trying to pull something over on me. Guilty until proven innocent…Right? 😉

      Just out of curiosity @PhilGeis … I am working with a top notch supplier…. and she is looking to add another preservative to her options…that would check all the boxes….for Gram +/- and YMF. Assuming a proper pH and chelate….a kiss of supporting members (glycols)… What have you seen at the wholesale level….that you would feel comfortable with…that a ‘natural’ formulator would also feel comfortable with? Context is probably natural lipid based moisturizing emulsions. (She already offers PE 9010 …. so I think a soup that contains Phenoxy…would be acceptable.) Hoping for something with better activity on YMF….would be the main point in adding the additional option.

  • Graillotion

    Member
    June 14, 2023 at 5:17 pm

    While we are on the topic …. why has O-Cymen-5-ol not made many in-roads into preservation (or as many as I would have expected)…as part of an overall package? @PhilGeis , do you not see it as a nice snap in piece to an overall package?

    • PhilGeis

      Member
      June 15, 2023 at 7:59 am

      Good question. Think it’s Annex 5 and know it’s been in some of the throughput batteries we’ve tested but don’t recall it popping out as an option. So i don’t know much about it.

      One bias I need to share re true naturals. My application and experience has been in big volumes for which a preservative truly “natural” and some other materials are not produced in sufficient volume to be considered. For example - if Leucidal were a valid, legal effective choice, there’s no way enough could be produce to satisfy Head & Shoulders (Wash and Go) global volume. Similarly, there’s not enough selenium sulfide production in the world to replace ZPT in the same product even tho’ it’s arguable more effective vs dandruff (and it’s also a terrible pain in the ass as an ingredient).

      • Graillotion

        Member
        June 15, 2023 at 9:52 pm

        @PhilGeis You have mentioned the evaluations/testing in the Annex…. Is this material available for public consuption? I would like to see these charts/evaluations…as I believe it would help me expand my knowledge of potential preservative components.

        Aloha.

        Golfed the Kona side today….about froze to death…rained the last 12 holes…and chilled my inner core. 😂 I’ll stick to my home course at Volcano!

        • PhilGeis

          Member
          June 16, 2023 at 6:03 am

          Annex V - as in the Cosmetic Directive https://lexparency.org/eu/32009R1223/ANX_V/

          Aka Isopropyl cresol #38. So it’s a legal preservative in EU and other directives. The testing mentioned as with my former employer.

          There’s a course at the volcano? We stayed at the volcano hotel last Spring.

          • This reply was modified 11 months, 1 week ago by  PhilGeis.
          • Graillotion

            Member
            June 16, 2023 at 4:38 pm

            Oh Dr Geis, I believe the most iconic of all golf pics was taken at my local course:

            Thank you…I will read tomorrow…after my guests leave.

            Aloha @PhilGeis

  • Graillotion

    Member
    June 16, 2023 at 4:41 pm

    The course at Volcano (and my boy).

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