Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating EDTA and cell membrane disruption?

  • EDTA and cell membrane disruption?

    Posted by Graillotion on June 12, 2023 at 11:15 pm

    I have spent the past couple of weeks, trying to create a blurb for beginners wanting to use more ‘natural’ preservatives. Of course this has morphed into a monstrous beast of a blurb….as a program like this must pull in every aspect of hurdle formulation.

    I thought I knew EDTA, inside and out….but came across this quote the other day, and before I used it…wanted to confirm the validity of the concept. So evaluate this comment:

    Also, chelators (such as EDTA, nitrilotriacetic acid, and sodium hexametaphosphate), which disintegrate the outer membrane by removing Mg2+ and Ca2+, are effective and valuable permeabilizers.


    In summary…they were saying…. EDTA would actually pull/bind/tie-up Mg2 and Ca2….right out of the pathogens cell membrane…therefore performing the partial role of a cell membrane disruptor. I had never actually looked at it in this exact light. Would those of you that specialize in this field…concur with that statement and concept? …. EDTA does function as a cell membrane disruptor, via this mode of action?

    For those of us that work with the next level down with chelates like…. GLDA….would we also get the same benefit?

    Aloha…and looking forward to your answers, one and all. @PhilGeis

    • This discussion was modified 11 months, 2 weeks ago by  Graillotion.
    • This discussion was modified 11 months, 2 weeks ago by  Graillotion.
    • This discussion was modified 11 months, 2 weeks ago by  Graillotion.
    Graillotion replied 11 months, 2 weeks ago 4 Members · 7 Replies
  • 7 Replies
  • mikethair

    Member
    June 13, 2023 at 1:54 am

    Some of the substances are much
    more effective permeabilizers than others. And they may have variable potential as
    antibacterials. Yes, EDTA, nitrilotriacetic acid, and sodium hexametaphosphate,
    which disintegrate the outer membrane by removing Mg2+ and Ca2+, are theoretically effective permeabilizers.

    My suggestion regarding GLDS is to set up a proper trial in your lab. And I’d do the same with EDTA. It is not something one would want to predict remotely.

  • Abdullah

    Member
    June 13, 2023 at 3:57 am

    I think this mechanism only works against gram negative bacteria. And yes GLDA does this too.

  • PhilGeis

    Member
    June 13, 2023 at 5:30 am

    Membrane to some extent but EDTA does not kill. More important the impact on bacterial slime and biofilm. Gram negative bacteria - esp. pseudomonads and enterics - produce an alginic acid slime/biofilm that protects the cells vs preservatives. Alginic acid is stabilized by calcium ions and EDTA by sequestering Calcium ion disaggregates the slime facilitating preservative access.

    • Abdullah

      Member
      June 13, 2023 at 10:38 am

      Is slime & biofilm the same thing

      • Abdullah

        Member
        June 13, 2023 at 10:39 am

        ?

      • PhilGeis

        Member
        June 13, 2023 at 10:42 am

        YUp

    • Graillotion

      Member
      June 13, 2023 at 2:15 pm

      That you…this is the exact information I need.

      Aloha.

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