Graillotion
Forum Replies Created
-
I think the answer to your question lies in the fact that our skin is very resilient. We abuse it in every way….exposure to low humidity with heated and air conditioned homes, and it adapts…. we abuse it with high pH products likes soap, and it immediately adapts and starts to lower the pH back to were it is comfortable. Almost whatever we throw at our skin….it overcomes to some degree. In no way shape or form…does the skin stay at the higher pH that soaps takes it to….it immediately uses all its resources to return to the correct acidic pH.
I think you will find many that are deeply entrenched in skin care….do not use high pH soaps for this very reason.
Our skin has something called an ‘acid mantle’ which is our first and foremost barrier to the world. This might be a starting point for your journey and study of skin. Yes, skin can recover from being soaped….but why? There are many theories, and just as many opinions, so you will always be able to find the crowd that believes in your theory, if you want folks to sing ‘Kum ba yah’ with you on soap….just hang on a soaping site. 🙂
-
Have you tried a knock-out….removing the Aloe?
-
Niacinamide is one of the most studied of the cosmetic ingredients and is one of the few that most will staunchly stand behind. However, everyone’s skin is different. A well-studied ingredient can still irritate a certain skin type, so work your way into it.
I would suggest a use rate of 2% to start with. Typically, since most skin is quite tolerant to it, the manufacturers will race each other to max levels….that give no additional benefit beyond claim.
Here is some reading material:
Formulating with Niacinamide - Prospector Knowledge Center (ulprospector.com)
Slide Show: 9 Benefits of Niacinamide (ulprospector.com)
Niacinamide, A High-Value Added, Multifaceted Cosmetic Active (ulprospector.com)
-
Sounds like you order from the US, now and then:
-
I am no expert!!!!!! … but this one kinda reminds me of a lot of the lore one sees on the net on various topics. Is citric acid a chelate…Yes. Is it your best option, most of the time… No. But people just hear that it is a chelate….and that is good enough for them…..details….who cares about those. ????
The reason EDTA or GLDA gets used in its place professionally, is they are more effective across a range of pH’s and against a wide slate of metals. Does citric match this…..generally no.
It is my understanding that to be highly effective, it needs to have a very specific molar ratio. All this tweaking of ratios…and your target pH will be all over the board.
Use edta or GLDA….and Done!
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Are Citric Acid-Iron II Complexes True Chelates or Just Physical Mixtures and How to Prove This?
Although mineral chelates are widely produced to be used as food fortifiers, the proof that these complexes are chelates is still missing. In our present work, iron II complexes using citric acid in different ratios are produced, and the occurrence … Continue reading
-
Just a source of polysaccharides…. of which there are many sources…. But people like the trendy, marketable name.
Search ‘beta glucans’ …. and you’ll have your answer.
In the past it was typically sourced from oats….and why you saw so much ‘oat’ this and that….in formulas.
Good luck.
-
Let me toss part of this topic to Dr Geis….or others…. Over the years, Dr Geis has instilled in me the fear of God….and so I have avoided anything with oat solids. Beta Glucans have always intrigued me though. (Granted this fear has kept me from studying it extensively….as can be concluded by my above, simple question). Do they bring with them….the bug food potential of say….colloidal oats? I would have to assume less…. just wondering how much less….if any? Asked another way….what it the big draw (portion) of the oat….that bugs want to feast on?
-
Numerous ways to address this….
1) Add a chelate…this really helps with mold.
2) Add some propanediol and pentylene glycol…will make it a better formula…and give extra hurdles.
3) add a preservative that specializes in mold…above and beyond what you have.
3) What the heck is the pH doing that high? (Hello lactic acid!)
4) OMG…lose some of the bug food. Lose the aloe…and replace the oat stuff with beta glucan. There are no known preservatives that will not fail….when pushed over the edge. Give your preservative a little help, and it will treat you right.
Good luck.
-
Have you checked to see if your carbomer is even gelling with the Na PCA? Many carbomers will not gel when hanging out with that crowd.
Just mix your carbomer in water….at formula rate….then add the Na PCA at formula rate….and observe if any change in viscosity.
-
Consider adding 1,3 Propanediol and pentylene glycol to your arsenal. Both can be bio-based….supplier dependent.
-
There is a concept in formulating, where every ingredient either helps with, or hinders the overall formula’s preservation profile. Very few ingredients would be considered completely neutral in that regard.
However, all the ones you mentioned should fall into the positive category. The only one I do not use is PG, for two reasons. It is usually petrol based, and with its short carbon chain, it is not nearly as boosting as something like pentylene glycol. I prefer my glycols to work in the preservation segment more so than in the humectant side, albeit they typically do both. (Prowess of each…determined by carbon chain length.)
I have grown to appreciate the skin after-feel of sodium lactate, and kinda love everything ‘lactic’. Granted you lose a lot of polymeric options….but I have been loving products made with Na Lactate and Hydrovance (Hydroxyethyl Urea). I still toss a kiss of glycerin into this soup….gotta keep those aquaporins alive and kicking.
-
Lume: And you can get there many ways….just get there. ????
-
” There is peer-reviewed scientific literature that demonstrates that skin can recover quickly from high-pH soap (9.5 pH).”
I believe that is what I said…but when I read this research…I was always appalled at HOW LONG it took to auto-correct. I guess quickly is an arbitrary term.
Good thing I don’t sell soap….so I can choose as I see fit. (20 years and counting….)
-
I hear you saying, all the big brands that are using a chelate….must be using some sort of pond water?
Last time I checked, the chelate was a fundamental instrument against pathogens. 🙂
-
EDTA is king. GLDA is best alternative if chasing the bio-degradable crowd.
-
Did you ever send an emulsion off for PET? Still curious to see the results.
Aloha.
-
Thank you for the files.
Have you used BG’s? The word ‘film former’ always puts a little trepidation into my heart, as I want moisturizers that feel like they are not there. When you add BG….does it add any feel to the product….good, bad or otherwise?
Did you notice any enhanced moisturization compared with the base vehicle?
Aloha, and Happy New Year. @jemolian
-
It is only being sold as a cosmetic ingredient, @PhilGeis
My question about ‘food grade’ was only a query into whether it would have tighter tolerances, than the more lax ‘cosmetic’ grade.
I did think that was leaving a lot on the shoulders of the preservation system.
Aloha.
-
I grew up in the era of Bob and Doug McKenzie, and the Great White North….So of course all Canadians say ‘eh’! ???? ⛄
-
What country are you in?
Here are two repackers in the US that carry bio based pentylene glycol:
Pentylene Glycol BIO 1460 | MakingCosmetics
Pentylene Glycol (formulatorsampleshop.com)
makingcosmetics.com
Pentylene Glycol BIO 1460 | MakingCosmetics
Hydrolite 5 green, natural pentylene glycol
-
@jemolian I had not seen that site before…but maybe I’ll check it out….since I am making up the contest…as I go.
The formula will be broken into segments similar to this:
humectants
emulsifiers
natural lipids
emollients
claim ingredients
water gelling agents….etc…etc…
Their choices will be limited to ingredients I have on hand (a VAST array) , and the entire group will get to comment for 24 hours on each segment….but only 10 members will actually get to vote. The group gets to try and influence the panel…with their arguments for ingredient selection. Once they have completed all segments…..I will make the formula….and send it off to a celebrity (cosmetic) panel for judging. Wish me luck. ????
-
Thank you Dr Geis….so would something like Liquid Germall Plus (INCI Diazolidinyl Urea (and) Iodopropynyl Butylcarbamate (and) Propylene Glycol fit the bill….as is has a couple of other things along for the ride….(safe to breath). ?
-
???? As a reader of old forums…NONE of the old links work (pre-remodel)…nothing to do with expiration, everything to do with the remodel. ????
I assume……you are referring to David Steinberg’s book?
-
Ever since the forum got the remodel….none of the old links work anymore. @Microformulation any chance you still have this link handy?
I would enjoy the read.
Aloha.
-
Hah…never thought of that…. ????
But OMG…I would have never guessed this result…. #2…Yes…but number 1????? (Used ‘Body Lotion’ for search criteria.)
I notice this is just sales from the last month…..so maybe #1…has an incredible Black Friday special?
Thank You.
Hehehe….I’ll report back in a month….how ‘herding cats’ goes. ???????? I’ll select 10 of them….break the formula into pieces…..and let them select the ingredients I have from each category….like barrier, emulsifier, water gelling agent, emollients, lipids, preservatives (with supervision) chelates, and one claim ingredient. Fortunately….I have hundreds….hehehe.