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Can I rant about re-sellers?
I have had yet another issue with a certain very well-known reseller.
They are adamant about not disclosing the expiration dates (or date of manufacture/production) for products in advance of placing your order. So, I placed an order for cranberry oil last week, only to learn the batch was manufactured in August 2021. As most of you can imagine, not many components, particularly carrier oils, will last more than 2.5 years, on top of the fact that I was hoping to use this product for at least another six months. Their documentation does not indicate an expiration date, but a “re-test date” of Feb 2025. Meanwhile, most manufacturers of this oil say the maximum shelf life is either 24 or 30 months….based on the original, unopened container. Has anyone else experienced issues like this? I am now realizing why they don’t want to tell you the expiration dates up front.
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9 Replies
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What testing and standards do they reco at “retest”?
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I’d suggest you read this post about cosmetic ingredient expiration dates.
Expiration dates on food products and ingredients make sense because they have a huge impact both on the taste and the safety of the food. When something goes rancid it has a consumer perceptible impact on taste. But for cosmetic ingredients, expiration dates don’t matter much.
In fact, there really is no formal “expiration date”. It is an arbitrary date that helps keep ingredient sales moving. I think it helps with ingredient marketing, but it doesn’t tell you much about the ingredient.
Here’s the difference. While food ingredient changes make big impacts on the final product, cosmetic ingredient changes often do not.
When you say the components of an oil “will (not) last more than 2.5 years” it’s hard to know exactly what you mean. The primary components of most oils (saturated fatty acids) aren’t going to change in a meaningful way. Palmitic acid & stearic acid are not prone to chemical degradation over time. So, they won’t change significantly even after 10 years.
However, unsaturated fatty acids are prone to oxidation and those can certainly change. But is it a change that will impact the formula? Not always.I’m looking at the fatty acid profile of cranberry seed oil and it looks like it has some Palmitic and Steric acid. In 3 years, this won’t change. But it does have Oleic, Linoleic, and Linolenic acid. These have double bonds which will change. They will oxidize and produce different types of organic molecules which can affect the Viscosity, Melting Point, but most importantly the Color and Odor.
Now, if you are only using 1 or 2% in the formula and other ingredients are having a more significant impact on color and odor, it might not matter if the cranberry seed oil has changed. That’s why you set specifications for things like color and odor and you can retest after some arbitrary point in time.
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You are asking a lot of the Mommy blogger resellers… Typically they do not even know which way is up. I suspect I know which one you are having the experience with, as of late, they have been sending fully rancid oils to their customers. (I help out on a beginner forum…so I hear things.) I have quizzed them/her (owner) numerous times, and the only metric they use is profit.
I mean how ironic would it be….to expect a reseller to know how to handle or test a lipid, if on the same shelf they have Leucidal products and Geogard products, feigning as acceptable?
Assuming you are in the USA there is only one repacker I would purchase small amounts from. (I categorize Jedwards as a little bit larger amount, hence excluding them from the conversation.) That would be Simply ingredients. The owner is an industry expert and cosmetic chemist. I don’t think she would mind if I shared a couple sentences, she has shared with me a few months ago. Here is her direct quote:
“Unfortunately, most companies don’t buy expensive oils. They’re viewed as commodities. It’s really unfortunate because I don’t think they are. 🙁 Expensive oils and stable oils cost money. I actually conduct peroxide and anisidine testing on my oils, routinely, to check for rancidity.”
*** Actually since you don’t see the whole message…. She is not checking for rancidity…but the very beginning of the process of rancidity starting. Rancidity is like a snowball rolling down hill and picking up speed. So she is checking if the process has been started!!!
There you see the tests that should be performed periodically. Is the company you purchased from doing this… I would wager my monthly wage… THEY ARE NOT! (I am retired and do not collect money from the government 😉.)
Bottom line… buyer beware! There is a good option, you just have to choose to execute it. Granted SI does not have a vast array of lipids…but once you understand lipids and FA profiles….you quickly realize that a handful of oils…can cover all your needs. I formulate almost extensively out of her collection. Living in Hawaii….I do (for claim) need to use a little Mac Nut oil, and Kukui. 🌴
You have been enlightened….go forward with the best.
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This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by Graillotion.
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Repackers are often started by beginner cosmetic enthusiast who have just enough acumen to know they’ll never make money selling cosmetics…. but beginner formulators are an absolute gold mine. Never forget this…when you evaluate their wares.
When I come across a higher-level intellect on the forum….I often privately encourage them to take this road…as it is sorely lacking in the industry.
I mean one of the biggest repackers….is a total front for a company that sells fake $h!+. 😉
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This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by
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Hi, all.
Cranberry oil is known for being relatively stable, but given its high polyunsaturated content, it is definitely still regarded as a “precious” carrier oil. Unless they are refrigerated or stored under nitrogen, nearly all of them at least start going rancid after the one-year mark. To give you a somewhat relevant example, the Flora flaxseed oil that I buy has a relatively similar fatty acid profile as the cranberry seed oil, and the instructions on the bottle suggest it be used within two months after opening….even though it’s refrigerated. (I realize this is not apples-to-apples because they are speaking of human consumption, but still.) I will be using the cranberry oil at a very high %, so it’s a fairly big issue for me.
<font color=”#01574e”>@PhilGeis </font> I would assume they will not disclose much information, but I can ask. In what they sent me, it seems to suggest only two variables/components were tested: (1) Appearance, for which they said “Pass” and (2) Peroxide Value, which scored 8.11 meq/kg (maximum threshold being 20meq/kg).
@Graillotion I agree with you, but this is kind of unbelievable given how long this particular reseller has been in business and in light of their reputation for being the go-to source for all things under the sun. To be honest, I was mainly going to them because some of the things they sell — e.g., two surfactants that I bought — are virtually impossible to find elsewhere. I honestly should have just used Jedwards from the beginning, but their MOQ is a bit high, and I would have had to “regift” some of the products to others, since I was buying a lot more than I could use. Knowing what has happened, I regret the decision. Noted about Simply Ingredients. And you are correct that this is not the first time this has happened: I am aware of other products this reseller is selling that are rancid/unusable per guidance from the manufacturer, yet they continue to do this without telling customers. I assume they get business because they have access to ingredients that so few resellers do.
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I “feel your pain” regarding NOT being given expiration dates or manufacturing dates. For YEARS I have had to e-mail the various re-packers I buy ingredients from in Canada, asking them PLEASE give me one of these dates, since they NEVER had it on their web-sites. Finally, within the last 10 - 12 months or so, 3 of the re-packers (Voyageur Soap & Candle, Windy Point, Soap & More) have started to post this info. on their web-sites. I found this lack of important info. infuriating when it came to preservatives. The answer I always got in the past from one of the above-mentioned re-packers, was always a ridiculous “it’s good for one year after you receive it. ” What a load of horse doody!!! I would often throw away preservatives before I finished them because I didn’t want to take a chance on using them, even when only buying a 30 mls. bottle of them. At least NOW the re-test date according to the manufacturer, is given for preservatives.
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I don’t have any connections or know anyone else who does any of this stuff so I have no idea who I’m supposed to avoid. I recently started having to branch out to new suppliers because of availability or ingredients. I’m assuming there are reasons to not just come right out and name who to avoid, so is there a way I can find out then?
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Clearly there are concerns with defaming a company in a public space.
Maybe this approach will work: List your country and the specific type of ingredient you are looking for….and ask for a recommendation.
Hehehe….if you do that on a beginner forum…you can find the worst vendors…by counting the votes. The vendor listed most often…is typically the worst. 😂
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Well that’s certainly a solution I hadn’t thought of lol
This is the only forum I belong to so maybe that’s why I haven’t run into any bad ones yet.
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